From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Sun Apr 20 2003 - 20:03:50 BST
Hi Sam
You wrote: 'The idea that metaphysics is a 'platform'
from which moral activity (or any other activity) can
flow is, I would argue, something of an error'
That is actually my point. What I was suggesting was
that this is the role metaphysics has tried to perform
throughout history in that it produces patterns of
thought by which understanding of experiences can be
achieved and decisions made e.g. logic, rationality,
probability etc.
I agree with Pirsig's commments in Ch 12 of Lila -
'The intellectual level of patterns, in the historic
process of freeing itself from its parent social
level...has tended to invent a myth of independence
from the social level for its own benefit'
My take on '..its own benefit' is that it has tried to
establish itself as a platform from which moral
activity can emerge. Pirsig devotes most of Ch 24 of
Lila to the problems this causes i.e. when the
intellectual level dominates.
One particular comment really stands out for me -
'The intellect's evolutionary purpose has never been
to discover an ultimate meaning of the universe. That
is a relatively recent fad.'
Now, this is where I'm coming from, not just that
metaphysics is a relatively recent fad, I am going
further than that and saying that metaphysics (as a
collection of intellectual patterns of value) has
overstretched itself when it tries to explain all.
I am further speculating that the mind is not limited
to intellectual patterns of value as an evolutionary
summit. And beyond that is where I am struggling for
all the usual reasons - suspended in language,
thinking the unthinkable etc.
But that doesn't stop my wanderings, and having people
respond is helping, so thankyou!
And apologies if this has all been discussed before,
that archives are rather large!
Paul
--- Elizaphanian <elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> As Platt said, this line of thinking is one that
> many people here are
> interested in. One small comment on something you
> said:
>
> > The whole history of metaphysics can be seen as
> the
> > struggle of abstract thought against degeneracy
> and
> > it's collapse as a platform from which the moral
> > activity of mankind can spring.
>
> The idea that metaphysics is a 'platform' from which
> moral activity (or any
> other activity) can flow is, I would argue,
> something of an error. It's what
> is called 'foundationalism' (ie our knowledge
> requires [metaphysical]
> foundations before it can be acceptable). This is a
> highly disputed point,
> in this forum and elsewhere. You might want to dig
> into the archives and
> look at some of Matt Kundert's posts (or begin with
> his essay posted on the
> forum) as he is one of the most prominent
> interrogators of that approach.
>
> I see metaphysics in two ways. 'Sense 1' is 'a
> filing system for the mind' -
> it is a derivative activity which seeks to organise
> our knowledge in a
> systematic way, so it is dependent on other
> knowledge for its foundations,
> rather than providing a foundation itself. 'Sense 2'
> metaphysics are akin to
> religious perspectives, ie they are compelling
> visions of the world which
> affect behaviour (eg neo-Platonism). I think that's
> what Wittgenstein was
> referring to when he thought of metaphysics as a
> kind of magic.
>
> Welcome to the forum.
>
> Sam
>
> "When we speak of God we do not know what we are
> talking about. We are
> simply using language from the familiar context in
> which we understand it
> and using it to point, beyond what we understand,
> into the mystery that
> surrounds and sustains the world we do partially
> understand" (Herbert
> McCabe)
>
>
>
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