Re: MD Undeniable Facts

From: phyllis bergiel (neilfl@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Fri May 02 2003 - 04:18:17 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Undeniable Facts"

    Mea culpa if I offended Matt or Johnny.
    > Matt said:
    > As someone who gets read as an ethical relativist, like Johnny is here,
    I'd
    > like to merely point out on our behalves, that reading us as ethical
    > relativists buys into an either/or situation that Richard Bernstein calls
    > "objectivism or relativism": "_Either_ there is a universal, objective
    > moral law, _or_ the concept of morality is groundless and vacuous."
    (Beyond
    > Objectivism and Relativism, p. 13) The same goes for knowledge, for that
    > matter. Bernstein draws out a thread of conversation, ranging from Kuhn
    > and Gadamer to Feyerabend and Rorty to MacIntyre and Habermas to Wolin and
    > Arendt, that he claims is attempting to get _beyond_ objectivism and
    > relativism. The degree to which they are successful or not may be an open
    > question, but I think the conversation needs to be paid attention to to
    get
    > a concrete understanding of what these thinkers are attempting to
    > say. Bernstein argues that those that buy into the gigantic Either/Or
    > situation of objectivism or relativism suffer from "Cartesian Anxiety":
    > that which people suffer from when they continue to use the metaphor of a
    > "foundation" to describe morals or knowledge. In this sense, moderns are
    > those who suffer from Cartesian Anxiety and post-modern thinkers, like
    > those mentioned above, are those who wish to get beyond the foundation
    > metaphor. To characterize Johnny and myself as relativists, I think, is
    to
    > buy into a metaphor that we have dropped. This means that the epithet
    > means very little to us because we understand how we are not relativists
    > and deny that we are.
    >
    By any chance is there a summary essay somehwere? I'm a bit short on
    reading time, but I am interested in looking into it. Thanks for the
    recommendation. I would hesitate to accept the inclusion of Habermas in
    this, as he usually sits on the opposite side of the table from Rorty.

    I am particularly interested (in mid project now) about your views on the
    MoQ's place in this axiological debate. As I said in response to Platt, the
    dynamic could be considered the stage where absolutes are contained
    independent of human apprehension, the modernist/objectivist view, or the
    dynamic is chaos out of which static patterns are chosen (radical
    postmodernism - my term) or the event which initially is responded to by
    emotion/intuition and then examined and assimilated by the intellect to new
    patterns (conservative postmodernism with a dash of neo-feminism).

    Johnny's initial comments on this actually sounded very pragmatic, like
    Venturi on architecture - is this a hallmark of the self-identity you claim?

    How does the "beyond foundations" position avoid the performative
    contradiction that so many relativists fall into?

    Do we keep this under the same subject thread?
    phyllis

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri May 02 2003 - 04:28:06 BST