From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu May 15 2003 - 14:04:19 BST
Hi Squonk
> Squonk: I have been wondering about 'the view from
> within' as a general
> assumption made by the MoQ? Is it made at all?
> Paul suggests that the MoQ is extruded out of
> insights into personal
> experience of Quality in ZMM and by analogy. Thus,
> we may wish to suggest an
> amoeba would say such and such if it could talk? I
> feel this ZMM analogy may
> be misleading when thinking about the MoQ, because
> the MoQ is Pirsig's mature
> thought and an advance on ZMM.
Are you saying that reading ZMM hinders understanding
of the MoQ? That's an interesting position I haven't
heard anyone else take so far, but I'm new to the
forum. Have others agreed or would others agree?
> It is a matter of empirical observation that
> patterns sharing a relationship
> with our patterns may harmonise and become
> indistinct. In other words, our
> patterns and those of others in the same field may
> coalesce on many levels,
> at various times, and in many combinations.
This sounds good. Can you help me with an example /
analogy?
> However,
> further empirical
> observation reveals that such coalescence's may
> display severe boundaries
> which may be mistaken as a, 'View from within.'
My understanding of coalescence is that it is the
reverse of the Quality event analogy. In the MoQ,
primary unity, Quality, polarises into DQ and SQ. The
first static latch started that polarity (a
Complementary polarity). That coalescence happens is
evidence of that. Differentiation is a precursor to
unification? Now, I accept that differentiation may be
illusory, transient, arbitrary etc. thus we may not
see its illusory nature and ‘mistakenly’ take it as a
‘view from within’. Trying to accept that is perhaps
what sent Pirsig running back to the US from India.
The way I understood 'view from within', or at least
what I mean by 'everything has a view from within' is
simply that when Pirsig says that 'B values
precondition A' there is an implicit assumption that
'B' is afforded agency to 'value precondition A'. It
responds to Quality. And ‘B’ is anything we may
intellectually define.
> But, a severe boundary may be said to be an extreme
> example of a more
> universal process?
Yes
> As such, the extension of,
> 'Personal experience' of
> Quality is not then merely an extension by analogy
> to DQ and the MoQ –
Understand that I’m not attacking the MoQ as ‘merely
an analogy’, it might be more appropriate to say that
I’m reducing the whole of the intellectual level to
‘extension by analogy’. SOM forgot that along the way.
> personal experience of Quality from a SoM dominated
> culture is an extreme
> example of boundary imposition being broken down.
Yes
> Therefore, we may wish to say that the 'view from
> within,' as an extreme
> example of static patterning is morally preferable
> to move away from.
PIRSIG: ‘He crosses a lonesome valley, out of the
mythos, and emerges as if from a dream, seeing that
his whole consciousness, the mythos, has been a dream
and no one’s dream but his own, a dream he must now
sustain of his own efforts. Then, even ‘he’ disappears
and only the dream of himself remains with himself in
it.’ ZMM
Have I misunderstood? Be patient, Squonk, I have an
open mind.
Cheers
Paul
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