From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Jun 02 2003 - 00:16:47 BST
Steve, Sam and all MOQers:
Steve said to Sam:
I assume you brought Spock into this because you think that (a) Spock is the
epitome of an intellectually dominated person and (b) the MOQ says that it
is best to be intellectually dominated, which would suggest a problem with
the description of the intellectual level because none of us think that
Spock is the ideal person.
dmb says:
There's nobody like Spock, and I mean that quite literally. There's no such
thing as a purely rational creature. We all know this from everyday
experience of the world and from being in our own skins. In the original
Star Trek, as in Plato's REPUBLIC, a single human psyche is divided into
three distinct aspects. Spock is a fiction that represents one third of a
mind. Naturally, this is not our idea of a well rounded or ideal person.
Steve continued:
DMB seems to disagree with(a) and agree with(b). I agree with(a) but not(b).
I don't think that what is best is to be dominated by intellect. Pirsig
says what is best is to be free of all static patterns which is often
interpreted to mean some sort of enlightenment. I think it may also be read
to mean having everything in balance.
dmb says:
Maybe you'd agree that AS FAR AS STATIC QUALITY GOES, its is best to be
"dominated" by 4th level values, but only "dominated" in the sense of the
moral codes. I mean, we're talking about making the most moral choice here,
not some crushing tyranny. We're talking about a hierarchy of VALUES. I
agree with your objections. Freedom FROM all static patterns certainly is
best, but that's part of the same moral code. And I largely agree with the
call for balance. That's what both Plato and Rodenberry sought to
demonstrate by representing the human soul in fragments. We'll get to watch
Kirk weigh Spock's cold reason against McCoy's passionate emotionalism and
find a balance on cable for the rest of our lives.
Steve said:
In Lila, Phaedrus represents intellectual quality (Rigel represents social
quality, Lila represents biological quality, the boat represents inorganic
quality). Most of us probably identified most with Phaedrus and assumed
that what is best is to be like him. None of us wanted to be like Lila or
Rigel (or the boat). But Phaedrus himself is a bit of a Spock, isn't he?
dmb says:
I think Pirsig's encounter with insanity and his advocacy of mysticism set
him quite apart from the typical intellectual, but I know what you mean.
He's a dork and nerd, just as much as those who have recently confessed to
being the same. I agree with how you rank the characters into levels. But I
still think you're misreading his apparent lack of social skills a bit. For
example,...
Steve said:
He is intellectually dominated to the point that he can't really have a
conversation with someone because his mind starts drifting away. Look at
how the Narrator in ZAMM deals with his troubled son as well.
dmb says:
Leaving ZMM aside for the moment...
Pirsig's depiction of the intellectual's inability to communicate has a
purpose in the book. He's trying to show that it is nearly impossible for
the intellect to deal directly with biology. They need that 3rd level as a
middle term. Notice that he doesn't have nearly as much trouble talking to
Rigel and, after the initial celebrity induced "goon out", he and Redford
had a very nice conversation. They even connected, in a way. An intelligent
artist like Redford doesn't take him for a "sad sack" at all. That's just
how Lila sees him. To complicate matters, in his actual life, and in the
book, the man is NOT pretty. He spends some time talking about how he'd
never had much to desire physically and all the girls let him know it with
their giggles and such. My point is only that intellectuals are NOT socially
inept so much as they have trouble socializing with the inept. I've limited
anecdotal evidence and we're really just talking about personality types, I
guess, but lots of the people I hang out with could rightly be called
intellectuals. Some of them dress like nerds, but everyone of them could
entertain me until dawn with nothing more than words. I'm sure of that. The
smartest people I know are also the funniest and most charming people I
know. I think this is not a co-incidence.
Thanks.
DMB
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