From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu Jun 05 2003 - 17:28:29 BST
On 3 June 2003 4:11 PM Johnny writes:
Johnny:
While I don't think free will is tangential to a "man-made or natural?"
thread at all, I'm very happy to start a thread about this. I think this
topic is misunderstood a lot here, and that means morality is misunderstood
and belittled. Understanding that what we choose to do is dependent on
Quality (aka Morality, Reality) is key to properly respecting quality and
morality. Believing in free will insults Quality and removes yourself from
history.
I think you are right Pi that lightning and human choices are not different.
They both choose the path of highest perceived quality at the moment of
choosing. Note though, that what they perceive is dependent on the quality,
not on them (the quality creates the perceiver and the perceived). Thus, at
the moment of choosing, they are both bound to choose the path that quality
(morality) presents to them. Lightning can not choose any path but the one
that appears best, and neither can we. We can deliberate longer than
lightning, but in the final analysis, the action that we do is always what
appears best, it is what we want to do most at that moment.
Hi Johnny, Pi, August and All,
joe: What a thread you have started! My approach to "free will' is through
the moral orders. It would seem reasonable that each order is so well
defined that there could be no ambiguity. So much for 'reasonable'.
I have heard many arguments about: Does God exist? Existence is dynamic.
Purpose is not a force! My perception is limited if I eliminate dynamic
purpose. In the MoQ my knowledge is limited by the perception of everything
as either subjective or objective. Dq is excluded. I have heard many
arguments about 'purpose'! I act! I only do one thing at a time, and I
leave something undone. How do I know what to do?
I think of gravity. I ponder what Pirsig saw when he comments that it
almost seems as though organic life is outside gravity and can act against
it. Organic life can be outside all the patterns of forces, gravity, weak
nuclear, strong nuclear, and electromagnetic. Organic life's actions are
determined by an intuition of dynamic purpose. Organic life has the
capability to intuit dynamic purpose. I fall at the usual rate, but when I
leave the gravity well of earth I do not become a monster.
Creating a pattern for the moral orders is a mystical, artistic endeavor. I
am free when I observe that my awareness is not identified with quality
patterns, mystical purpose, or mystical existence. I experience dynamic
purpose in others' actions. I expect I will be unhindered in my actions
based on dynamic purpose. In this way a dynamic order of morality,
existence, is reasonable by structuring the chaos of dynamic purpose. My
action is based in something. Evolution is reasonable. Existence, purpose,
and quality balance.
Joe
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