From: Pi (pi@mideel.ath.cx)
Date: Fri Jun 06 2003 - 03:48:58 BST
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Steve Peterson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Free Will seems to be one of those SOM Platypi--the sort of issue that gets
> resolved in the MOQ.
>
> The issue is whether the cause of human behavior lies in the human subject
> or in external objective reality. But if subjects and objects are
> deductions from Quality, then neither free will of the subject nor
> determinism by objective reality represents the cause of human behavior.
>
> It seems that the question, "do we have free will" needs to be unasked
> within the MOQ context. Or at least reworked.
Hi Steve. Good point. The question "Do we have free will?" does need to be
unasked. As you described, it doesn't really make sense under MOQ. Maybe
we should just responsd to this question with the following response:
"Mu"
Works for me. :) That is what I essentially answer when someone unaware of
MOQ asks me a question like "Do you believe in God?". The question about
free will is no different.
> In the MOQ, a sense of free will is an intellectual pattern of value. It
> can be recognized whenever we think, "I did it because..." a phrase which is
> the basis of all intellectual patterns of value since they are latched as
> copied rationales (If you agree with Wim as I do). Only humans have free
> will since only humans participate in intellectual patterns. In other
> words, in the MOQ intellect and free will refer to the same human capacity--
> that of applying a rationale to motivate action.
>
> If you can't resist thinking about it in SOM terms, I still think it makes
> sense to say that the MOQ affirms free will since it says that Quality is
> that which everything responds to. We do what we value. To further say
> that we do not have a choice in what we value is irrelevant to free will,
> unless you define free will in some kooky way like the capacity not to
> prefer what we prefer. That sounds like nonsense to me. To desire free
> will as we all do would then be to prefer to be able to not prefer what we
> prefer. Kooky.
I completely agree. Well said.
The counter argument to your point could be me saying that, "I value A
more than B, but I chose B anyway". But that just means that I responded
to B more than A. Me making that statement is just me trying to
statically intellectualize the dynamic.
- Pi
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