From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sat Jun 14 2003 - 14:00:07 BST
Dear Sam,
I agree that RELIGION 'relieves from suffering' by providing Meaning (as you
wrote 28 Apr 2003 11:52:49 +0100 in slightly different words) and not some
GOD by intervening.
I wrote 27 Apr 2003 23:19:14 +0200:
'I agree with Kuitert, that it is not the creation of the images that leads
one to the transcendence. It is certainly not by just looking at icons that
are created by others that 'real transcendence' can be experienced for a
first time.'
You replied 28 Apr:
'I agree that icons cannot simply be "seen" for what they are - the eye
needs training. Yet this is a precise instance of SQ enabling DQ, as I would
see it.'
So you argue that training in experiencing sq is necessary to be able to
experience DQ. That amounts (in my understanding of patterns of value) to
saying that training in experiencing the value of stability and versatility
of patterns and their harmony with higher level patterns of value is
necessary to be able to experience the value of their substitution by better
(further evolved) patterns of value.
Well, I do experience some truth in that: One must be able to experience the
value of two separate patterns in order to be able to experience the value
of one substituting the other. But it is only part of the (contradictory)
truth: In order to be able to experience the static value of any pattern,
one must be able to appreciate its place in the evolutionary sequence, the
fact that it has substituted lower value patterns.
It is difficult for me to apply this to icons, because too much of the
static patterns of value I participate in resist attaching value to them. I
recognize the theoretical possibility that others recognize 'transcendence'
in them, but that's all.
The point I tried to make 27 Apr was a different one however. It relates to
the value Quakers attribute to tradition and scripture. Quakers DO recognize
'transcendence' in tradition and scripture, but they explain it as exactly
that: re-cognition. One must FIRST have experienced 'transcendence' (direct
divine inspiration, DQ) ONESELF BEFORE being able to RE-cognize it in the
static patterns of value that have been left in the wake of DQ experiences
of OTHERS.
And yes, being able to distinguish NEW static patterns of value (left in the
wake of one's own DQ experiences) from old, pre-existing ones, requires some
training in or at least knowledge of these old ones. Otherwise one could
mistake some re-invented static pattern of value (e.g. peyote induced
experience?) that has been discarded for good reasons by most others (e.g.
by most religious traditions) for a new one that indicates DQ experience.
At the end of your 28 Apr 2003 11:52:49 +0100 post you asked:
'"what are your guiding values", or "what is your ultimate meaning". What is
the star by which you navigate your life? As I see it, a religious outlook
is one which acknowledges such a star.'
For me this question does not relate to my understanding of level 4 (as it
does for you), but my answer is: the experience of unity in diversity and
even underneath/beyond conflict. The experience that makes me define (as I
wrote before) God as 'that which connects everyone and everything'. This
answer is for me summarized in the very meaning of 'religion' with its root
're-ligare', re-connecting. I definitely have a religious outlook which
provides me with Meaning to live the way I do.
From my perspective Platt's question whether we believe in Christianity's
promise of life after death, of 'life everlasting', shows a rather
superficial understanding of what religion in general and Christianity in
particular have to offer. By which I don't deny that 'life after death' is
and has been a metaphor for the same experience I describe with 'unity in
diversity and even underneath/beyond conflict' and that countless Christians
have taken and still take this metaphor literally.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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