From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Wed Jun 18 2003 - 05:08:25 BST
Sam,
> Damasio distinguishes between "emotion" and "feeling" (I haven't followed
that distinction in
> previous posts, although I now shall). Damasio writes, "I separate three
stages of processing along
> a continuum: a state of emotion, which can be triggered and executed
nonconsciously; a state of
> feeling, which can be represented nonconsciously; and a state of feeling
made conscious, ie known to
> the organism having both emotion and feeling." So emotions are publicly
observable (partly), whereas
> feelings are purely internal. So let's agree that (defined this way)
emotions are the level 2
> processes, ie bodily, whereas feelings operate at level 3 and, I would
argue, at level 4, ie your
> sense that theory A is true and theory B is false is a *feeling*.
I can't say this makes much sense to me. Shame is a level 3 emotion, for
instance, and is triggered consciously ("Oh no, what will they think of
me"). Also, the Aha experience is more than a feeling, though it is that as
well. It is the instantaneous *knowing* that the puzzle has been solved,
*prior* to having found the words to express the solution.
A DH Lawrence quote sums it up for
> me:
>
> You must fuse mind and wit with all the senses
> before you can feel truth.
> And if you can't feel truth you can't have any other
> satisfactory sensual experience.
>
> (DH Lawrence, 'Sense of Truth')
There is a difference between, on the one hand, an Aha experience, which I
have characterized above, and on the other, what I would call "feeling
truth". In the latter case one suspects that truth will most likely lie in
one direction and not others, but there is no certainty. So, in sum, I think
the issue is more complicated than Damasio's three-part division can handle.
> > This, by the way, is what I find objectional in much modern Christian
> > theology. It seems to try to preserve 3rd level emotion, by treating
> > religion as a way to respond to them, rather than learning to change
one's
> > ideas so they don't arise. Not that it is that simple.
>
> Do say more! (I probably agree, it sounds like what I object to in the
cult of mystical
> 'experience')
Well, if so, then you might not agree. What I had in mind is not actually
"theology", but more general apologetic of the form "Let Jesus help you with
your burdens". That is, to see religion (not just Christianity) primarily as
a comforter and a solace. Of course that is one of the names given to Christ
(the Paraclete), but it seems to me that the "truer" message is of the "I
bring not peace, but a sword" type.
But as I say, it is not that simple. What's the quote? something like
"comfort the afflicted, and discomfort the smug". But we are all afflicted
in some way or other, in these modern/postmodern times, but -- assuming we
are not truly afflicted by hunger or oppression or what have you -- many of
these afflictions are self-inflicted, and religion needs to confront the
self-images we have that have these afflictions as side effects, and not the
afflictions themselves.
- Scott
>
>
> Sam
>
> "Phaedrus is fascinated too by the description of the motive of 'duty
toward self' which is an
> almost exact translation of the Sanskrit word 'dharma', sometimes
described as the 'one' of the
> Hindus. Can the 'dharma' of the Hindus and the 'virtue' of the Ancient
Greeks be identical?" - The
> Eudaimonic MoQ says yes. "Lightning hits!"
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward -
http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jun 18 2003 - 05:17:18 BST