From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Jun 30 2003 - 22:41:49 BST
>Johnny said:
>Matt's talking from within history, like all of us. There's millions of
>truths within history, just not any outside history. And within a history,
>truths are eternal. To the extent that histoy is shared, our truths are
>shared.
>
>Matt:
>I follow up until you say, "within a history, truths are eternal." I don't
>think we have to say that. I think it is simply sufficient to say that "I
>believe X is true." I think it simply incoherent to add, "for all times
>and places, now and forever." That forces you into a referential paradox
>that I don't think we need.
Johnny:
I think it is more of a paradox to say "I believe x is true, but only within
the context I and all of us are stuck in". That's what you don't have to
say, and what is incoherent. I agree it is sufficient to say "X is true"
(even leaving out the 'i believe').
>Johnny said:
>Everyone who believes something believes it to be true in an trancendental
>and eternal sense. What's the point of considering something is a fact if
>you don't assert it true ahistorically and eternally? Not being able to
>escape from history means we don't have to worry about escaping from
>history, we don't have to offer any disclaimers about our being stuck in
>history, it goes without saying. So since we are all in history, we can
>all assert truths as being ahistorical.
>
>Matt:
>Yeah, see, all this here: that doesn't make any sense to me. It makes no
>sense to me to say that, since we can't escape history, everything can be
>said to escape history. As pragmatist philosophers, we simply want to stop
>trying to escape history because it has been historically seen to be a
>futile excercise.
Johnny
I'm not saying that "everything can be said to escape history", I'm saying
that there's no need for that disclaimer about being stuck in history, as
living a life and experiencing things is only possible when being stuck in
history, when being stuck in subject/object. So it goes without saying, and
in fact makes no sense if you do say it, because it implies that there might
be some way that one could not be stuck in history.
It is important to realize that truths are contingent on history and
context, because it shows why morality is important, it shows how fragile
truth can be. But realizing that doesn't mean that truths are not to be
asserted as true, to the contrary, it shows why it is even more important to
assert them as true. And it is important to see that our subject/object
lives are an illusion built on moral patterns which are the underlying
substance to everything, because it gives a profound insight into morality
and responsibility.
Johnny
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