From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jul 03 2003 - 22:26:25 BST
Hi Rick,
>R
>While there may or may not be a kernel of truth behind every stereotype, I
>think that's a very dangerous line of argument to pursue. In this
>particular
>case, my own experience doesn't bear out the notion that most gays are
>intellectuals. I think you see it that way because you associate
>intellectualism with liberal social progressiveness and think that gays
>must
>be liberal and progressive because they desire social tolerance for their
>sexual preferences. But I think that's wrong. I think that most gays
>aren't really any more socially progressive than most heterosexuals are....
>with the exception of their one personal issue (but hey, everyone has some
>issues--- does that makes us all intellectuals?).
If we think about things, yes. Most of us are intellectuals to some
degree. Kaczynski called some people 'over-socialized', in MoQ terms I
would translate that to "intellectualized" - their social patterns have been
overwhelmed by intellectual concepts. it doesn't mean they are smart or
intelligible, just incapable of directly experiencing social patterns
without thinking about them first.
>J
> I stand by the main point, which is that intellectualism and
> > homosexuality are related.
>
>R
>Is there a converse relationship between heterosexuality and
>anti-intellectualism?
Hmm, well, I think the institution of marriage was an intellectual idea, the
idea that there is a duty to marry to take care of the other sex and create
equality. But it was probably a defensive reaction against intellectual
ideas that thwarted natural social marriage and love. Natural social
marriage and heterosexuality are not intellectual, but not
anti-intellectual.
>J
> If non-intellectuals are gay, ie, if any person
> > becomes gay not by thinking-about-it too much but by copying behavior,
>it
>is
> > because the intellectual pattern is starting to take hold as a social
> > pattern. (Though there may be hormonal and genetic conditions that may
> > contribute to being gay, it is an intellectual construct that says that
> > people with those biological patterns can't be straight.)
>
>R
>Are you familiar with the writings of Michel Foucault? Here is a webpage
>briefly summarizing some of his vast ideas
>(http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/history_of_sexuality.htm). I would
>be
>interested in your opinion of his theories.
Foucault is one of those "other" philosophers who gets some things right and
some things wrong. I've never been able to tell if I agree with him or not
as a whole.
>J
> > Right, except I think now it is heterosexuals who are dying in their
>wars.
>
>R
>Which wars would these be? Are you suggesting that the war in Iraq or
>Afghanistan is a part of some "homosexual agenda"? Does that mean that
>Bush
>is in on it as well?
Well, yes. Andrew Sullivan is the typical war-booster these days. The wars
are crusades against morality, and Bush is in on it because the US and the
Giant are stengthened, and Bush is a shareholder.
>J
> > Any statute is "unenforcable" if it criminalizes something that is
>primarily
> > done in private.
>
>R
>Murder is primarily committed in private. So is rape. Drug use usually
>occurs behind close doors... I could go on all day listing enforceable
>statutes that criminalize behavior that occurs primarily in private.
Yes, arresting someone for a murder comitted in private would seem to
violate their due process. Murders committed in public are enforcable, but
if you do it in private it is legal. Explain to me why it doesn't, without
bringing up anything biblical, like "thou shalt not kill".
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jul 03 2003 - 22:26:53 BST