From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jul 08 2003 - 19:06:00 BST
Hi Platt, all,
Platt wrote:
"for me the context isn't history like for Matt, but people."
The point I was trying to get across in the Free Will thread was that people
ARE history. And history is people.
Did anyone see Star Trek Nemesis? I really recommend it highly, it's a lot
of fun.
And it's got some really really relevent lines.
Like when Worf is hung over from Romulon beer at Riker and Troi's wedding,
he groans "Oww! Romulon beer should be illegal!!" and another crew member
looks at him and shakes his head and says "It is!" I thought that was
funny.
But the cool part has to do with a ongoing discussion of character and
history and what it means to be human. I won't give it all away, but I
thought it was very well done...
Johnny
>From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Patterns of value.
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:16:02 -0400
>
>Hi Steve, (Matt)
>
>Going back a ways:
>
> > Steve:
> > I've been trying to think why you would suggest that I was dealing with
> > Platonic forms when I suggested the more precise language of patterns of
> > value. Perhaps the disagreement lies in the definition of "pattern."
> >
> > Are you thinking of a pattern as a mold or a model of an original? I'm
> > not. I think of patterns in the mathematical way as perceptual
>structures.
> > Perceiving a pattern is inferring a causal rule in the case of SOM
>science
> > and is inferring a value in the case of the MOQ. (Pirsig suggests
> > redefining science as the study of stable patterns of value.) Either way
> > the inference is made as recognition of repetition of similar
>experience.
> > We infer the values that possess a person by the choices we observe a
> > person making. Such inference may only be possible by recognizing
>patterns
> > in the choices that a person or group of people make. Does that way of
> > thinking about patterns help you see the case for talking about patterns
>of
> > values?
>
>Not really. I can't help but think of people when I think of patterns,
>just as your explanation involves people such as mathematicians,
>scientists, Pirsig, persons, and groups of people. Perhaps I'm hung up on
>Matt's "context" because to his way of thinking, we're always stuck in
>some context or other, and for me the context isn't history like for Matt,
>but people. In other words, such and such is true, but only in the context
>that a person says so.
>
>I know. That's ridiculous. So I am going to reexamine my position. I'll
>try to dispel the fog of context, whether that context be people, history
>or a passing breeze, by using the light of my intellect, infinitesimal as
>that might be.
>
>Platt
>
>
>
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