From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 2003 - 21:44:27 BST
Hi Scott,
> > Squonk didn't say Bo was deliberately being racist, and I didn't mean to
> > suggest that either when I supported Squonk. My support was for
>subjects
> > and objects being as old as quality, and the intellectual level not
>being
> > synonomous with the S/O worldview.
>
>True, Squonk didn't say "deliberately". But in a later post, he said
>that --now that he has "shown" that Bo's position implies racism, he said
>that anyone who continues to agree with Bo's position is promoting "racism
>in the forum". I continue to agree with Bo's position (on the relevant
>matter, not with all of it), and, since he (Squonk) has not retracted his
>remark in spite of my pointing out to him the incorrect logic of his
>charge,
>he is in effect calling me a racist. I do not like that.
>
> >
> > I'm not even sure I agree with squonk that saying that a culture doesn't
> > have an intellectual level is so racist or derisive anyway. Good for
>them,
> > I say.
>
>It is implied by the MOQ: the intellectual level is the top level (to
>date).
>So a culture that has no intellectual level is by MOQ definition inferior
>to
>one that does. Your definition may vary.
The culture doesn't have an intellectual level, the intellectual level has
the culture. Your viewpoint is disturbing in its implications, I do agree
with Squonk that it is racist to call a culture inferior, especially when
that quote about "killing the germ" is so widely disseminated, it makes it
seem that it would be OK to kill that culture. I suppose you would advocate
replacing the cultures of those peoples that are not propogating
intellectual patterns with our culture, which is exactly what tends to
happen, and what Pirsig seemed to advocate in the killing of Zuni culture.
I guess he feels that the Zuni people weren't killed, but rather were freed
from their inferior culture.
> I think squonk feels this insults a culture by calling them less
> > intelligent? I don't think that it does.
>
>Then you disagree with the MOQ.
Yes, I seem to. I know I disagree with Pirsig about survival of the
fittest, and I know I don't think it is good for an intellectual idea to
kill society.
>Which, of course, you are free to do, but
>that is not the argument here. We (Squonk, Bo, and I) agree with the MOQ
>but
>interpret it differently, obviously. What I find outrageous is that Squonk
>has twisted Bo's (and my) interpretation into a charge of racism. Squonk
>has, of course, committed other outrages against Bo (if you were around
>last
>summer, you might remember them), but this business of "racism in the
>forum"
>is pure poisoning of the well: "Support me or be seen as a racist".
>
>- Scott
Heavy handed, to be sure, but there is definitely something to it that we
should talk about.
Johnny
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