Re: MD Intellectual patterns? huh?

From: Trivik (trivik@stwing.upenn.edu)
Date: Sun Jul 13 2003 - 15:01:17 BST

  • Next message: Erin N.: "RE: MD Intellectual patterns? huh?"

    > I have also yet to find anyone who has offered a better definition of
    > intellect than Pirsig's "manipulation of symbols." (Since that is the
    > author's definition, I take it to be "Q-intellect.") Anyone have a better
    > definition?

    "manipulation of symbolss" seams to me to be too broad a definition. by
    symbol i understand an item which is used in place of an object as an
    object. also, you cannot have a symbol unless you are able to manipulate
    it (a usage of symbols is a manipulation of them). so any form of memory
    is symbolic. eg that dog whose mouth starts to water when he hears the
    bell is engaged in symb. manip. i'd even say eyesight is symbolic. and
    it is more obvious that the social level works through symbols.

    so takin in a broad sence one might say that the biological, social and
    intelectual levels are concerned with symbols.

    it seams that these three levels manipulate symbols in the sence that they
    juggle around and use them, while the intelectual level alone manipulate
    the symbols themselves. Sort of like the difference between using traffic
    lights as a driver or even as a city planer tinkering with the stoop-go
    patterns and actully going down and destroying a traffic light and
    replaceing it with a gate or something.

    this would also imply that the biological and social levels themselves
    cannot create or alter any symbols, but mearly use the ones already
    there. the creation/alteration would have to be a dynamic or intelectual
    process.

    so taking back what i initially said. if we call usage of symbols, just
    that, then yes, symbolic manipulation or symbolic creation/alteration
    would be a criteria of the intelectual level.

    but is this sufficient? i suspect so, as altering or createing a symbol
    itself would have to eaither be 1. a dynamic process or 2. an intentional
    process; and intent implies self-awareness.

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Jul 13 2003 - 16:06:32 BST