From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Sat Jul 26 2003 - 20:49:47 BST
Hi DMB,
> Pirsig wrote:
> "Does Lila have Quality? Biologically she does, socially she doesn't.
> Obviously! Evolutionary morality just splits that whole question open like a
> watermelon. .. Biologically she's fine, socially she's pretty far down the
> scale, INTELLECTUALLY SHE'S NOWHERE."
>
> Pirsig wrote:
> "She missed the whole point of everything. She's after Quality, like
> everybody else, but she defines it entirely in biological terms. She DOESN'T
> SEE INTELLECTUAL QUALITY AT ALL. Its outside her range."
>
> Steve wrote:
> 'Intellectually nowhere' reads as hyperbole to me. It is a novel after all,
> we can expect him to use such literary devices.
>
> dmb says:
> Yes, its a novel. And the quotes you dismiss as "hyperbole" are meant to
> answer the central question about the novel's title character.
Steve:
I'v explained how I interpret them as well as what's wrong with your interpretation. I haven't dismissed these quotes at all.
> Clearly, this
> is one of the most basic and crucial points. Frankly, I think dismissing
> these quotes is "intellectually nowhere" and only shows that you've "missed
> the whole point of everything".
Really? Everything? Literally EVERYTHING? Are you absolutely sure ther's no hyperbole in there?
Here's my interpretation again of biologically fine, socially pretty far down the scale, and intellectually nowhere so you can be convinced that I haven't dismissed these quotes:
The forest of static patterns that constitute Lila include pretty good biological patterns, pretty bad social patterns, and horrible intellectual patterns.
Rather than see Pirsig's words as referring to the quality of each type of pattern that Lila participates in, you'd rather think of his words as the quanity of these different types of patterns to say that she doesn't participate in any intellectual patterns. (And that she only has a few social patterns? Nonsense.)
Actually, I don't think you think in terms of patterns at all though you claim that you do. I still think your confusion lies in thinking of fitting these quotes into a 'types of people' interpretation of the MOQ levels which is completely inappropriate here.
In that interpretation we would agree that she is a biological type and need say nothing more about the other levels. Since Pirsig did talk about the other levels, he meant to do more than classify her as a type of person and instead talk more specifically about the types of patterns of value in Lila's "forest."
Thanks,
Steve
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