From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jul 27 2003 - 16:11:50 BST
DMB, Rick:
Rick to DMB
> Moreover, the book is sprinkled with references that indicate Lila has
> intellectual values...
>
> PIRSIG (LILA ch15 p228)
> "The mental Lila had tried to die but the cellular Lila had wanted to
> live....The intelligence of the mind can't think of any reason to live, but
> it goes on anyway because the intelligence of the cells can't think of any
> reason to die....That explained what happened tonight. The first
> intelligence out there in the cabin disliked him and still did. It was
> this second intelligence that had come in and made love. The first Lila
> had nothing to do with it...."
>
> PIRSIG (LILA ch15 p223)
> Phaedrus became aware again of Lila's body next to him, and again the
> gentle rocking of the boat. That was the only thing that had happened all
> day, the way their bodies paid no attention to all their social and
> intellectual differences.
>
> etc,etc, etc
>
> R
> And finally David.....
>
> PIRSIG (LILA ch13 p185)
> A human being is a collection of ideas... Ideas are patterns of value.
> They are at a higher level of evolution than social patterns of value.
>
> R
> Catch that one? A "human being" is a collection of ideas that are at a
> higher level than social patterns (meaning they can only be 4th level). So
> now I put an "indisputable" proposition to you DMB: If Lila is a human
> being, she must (in some sense) be a collection of 4th level ideas. If
> she's not (in some sense) a collection of 4th level ideas, she's not a
> human being. So which is it David? Is Lila a human being or not?
Besides the references Rick cites, Pirsig spells out in Lila's Child what
he means by intellect:
Note 25. "For purposes of MOQ precision, let's say that the intellectual
level is the same as mind."
Does Lila have a mind or not?
Note 32. "since the MOQ states that consciousness (i.e. intellectual
patterns) is the the collection and manipulations of symbols, created in
the brain, that stands for patterns of experience . . ."
Is Lila conscious or not?
Note 95. "Intellect is simply thinking."
Does Lila think or not?
Note 140. "The MOQ divides the hominem, or "individual" into four parts:
inorganic, biological, social and intellectual."
Is Lila an individual or not?
It will be interesting to see if DMB will now contradict Pirsig since he
has been so adamant in taking the great author at his word. :-)
Platt
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