From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jul 27 2003 - 19:53:48 BST
Steve and all:
dmb said:
Pirsig says "she doesn't see intellectual quality at all" and you say she
does, but only the "horrible" intellectual patterns? OK. Pretending for the
moment that there is such a thing as pretty bad values or horrible quality,
you're still just contradicting Pirsig.
Steve replied:
Do you really have to pretend that some patterns are of higher quality than
others? ...the difference in our interpretations is simply that you read him
as talking about 'how many quality?' to which you answer 'none' whereas I
see him talking about high or low quality. To me "nowhere" means very low
quality in this case.
dmb answers:
I'm glad you brought this up again. A response requires that I momentarily
leave aside the specific question of Lila's status, but will hopefully shed
light on the issue anyway. I don't think it has to do with the amount or the
kind. Its not about quantity or quality. That would be in the strange
position of having to measure values with a calculator or qualify qualities.
This is inelegant enough to cause a stroke. Pirsig is basically saying that
everything is good, its just that some things are better than others. His
evolutionary morality asserts that all of reality is composed of values, and
properly speaking, none of them are "bad". Biological values aren't bad by
themsleves, its only when a person chooses them OVER and instead of Social
or intellectual values. So immorality is not a matter of choosing bad values
or bad quality, because strictly speaking there is no such thing. Its a
matter of choosing the wrong values. Its a matter of letting the lower ones
rule where the higher ones ought to be in charge. That's why I think there
no such thing as low quality intellectual values or horrible intellectual
quality. If you were to site an example of a horrible idea and we then
scrutinized it, I bet we'd find that said horrible idea was actually some
lower level value dressed up like an idea. In other words, we'd would NOT
find horrible intellectual values, only a lack of them. Does that sense?
Steve asked:
"Why does Rigel fail to see any quality in Lila?" Are you now going to
argue that Rigel can't see biological quality at all? That he doesn't
participate in biological patterns?
dmb says:
No. I'm saying that Rigel measures quality in terms of social values and
since Lila is "pretty far down the scale" socially, Rigel sees no quality in
her. At least not until he is convinced otherwise by you-know-who. Again,
Pirsig is using these characters to demonstrate what the value level look
like as they are exhibited by persons. Rigel is certainly no exception. He's
an integral part of it too, because Pirsig is trying to make the larger MOQ
point by showing how Lila needs him, how difficult it is to communicate
across the gap between biological (Lila) and intellectual (Captian) values
without that 3rd level (Rigel)as a middle term. As I mentioned to Rick, the
characters are consistent with the logical structure of the MOQ.
And finally I'd like to apologize for yesterday's harsh words. What I said
was not true and I'm sorry I said it. You're every bit as sexy as Lila.
Thanks,
dmb
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