From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Aug 11 2003 - 17:37:09 BST
On 8 August 2003 2:12 PM Platt writes:
> Hi Squonk, Paul, All:
>
> > squonk: I see your point. However, a teacher must be creative in his/her
> > communication in order to convey enthusiasm and delight in the topic.
> > All the best teachers i ever had the luck to be taught by would quite
> > happily fly off the main thread and introduce all sorts of apparently
> > unrelated stuff, only to have it all tie together at the end. It's a
> > real pleasure to see it in action - as it was spontaneous and free
> > flowing. This is important Platt, as i feel sure you can appreciate -
> > for it would appear that the whole was somehow 'felt' and structured by
> > the teacher before delivery. This is like the artist who intuits the
> > whole before execution. I can't explain it, but it's Dynamic. Peter
> > Cook, the British satirist and comedian could do this very well
> > apparently - Cook could just begin a long story from scratch and quip
> > for minutes on end before tying everything together in a delightfully
> > funny punch line. I feel the relationship between the static repertoire
> > and DQ is a key.
>
> I know what you mean, Squonk, and I appreciate very much your giving us
> examples so your meaning becomes even clearer. I too have had a teacher
> or two in my dim past who could, on the fly, fill a classroom with
> wonder and awe by her ability to tie together a whole bunch of
> disparate ideas into a symphony of new understanding. A rare performing
> artist, for sure. But, I'm still stuck on this coming out of the
> intellectual level which I see as been filled mostly, as Pirsig says,
> with static ideas. I also want to remind you that some artists take the
> opposite course in the act of creation of the one you describe as
> intuiting the whole before execution. Many painters, jazz musicians and
> improv comedians do the opposite. The build on what they see or hear
> happening, intuiting as they go along.
>
> What I'm trying to describe is the creative PROCESS and to me the
> intellectual LEVEL doesn't contain the catalyst, the energy if you
> will, that's needed to create new harmonies. Sure, intellect is related
> to DQ as are all the levels, but only secondarily. As Pirsig put it:
> "In the MOQ Quality comes first which produces ideas which produce what
> we know has matter." (Note 67, Lila's Child) To me, intellect is the
> "home" for static intellectual patterns or "repertoire." To put it in
> musical terms, the intellectual level contains the notes, the chords,
> the tempos, the keys, the progressions and all the other musical
> paraphernalia which an experiencing human being, responding to DQ,
> combines into a creative composition. But the actual act of combining
> is beyond the intellectual level. It's ahead of all levels. It's at the
> front of the train. It's more a part of pure experiencing than
> intellectualizing if you know what I mean. It's in the realm of
> aesthetics, wherever that is.
>
> Maybe I'm being too picky, Squonk. But you, I, Paul and I'm sure others
> are circling around the flame that's at the heart of the MOQ. I've been
> convinced for a long time that the fuel for that flame emanates from
> the realm of beauty and that DQ is the spark that lights it for us.
> But, like everyone else who attempts it, I find it terribly hard to
> pattern it intellectually, i.e., to put it into words. I need all the
> help I can get and appreciate those who feel as I do more than I can
> say.
Hi Platt, Squonk, Paul, all,
joe: when I realized that Pirsig was showing me that I know the undedfined,
I had to pause. Was I going to stick with intertwining universes? In a way
I guess one could say that the four different levels are intertwining
universes. Maybe that would be true if the undefined was experienced only
in the boundaries of the inorganic, organic, social, and intellectual
individuality. I don't hink Pirsig meant that. I think he wanted to show
me that the undefined is a part of everyday life, not something for which I
had to be in a special state to experience.
Platt I don't agree with your description: "To me the intellect is 'home'
for static intellectual patterns or 'repertoire'......But the actual act of
combining is beyond the intellectual level".
If I paraphrase that I see that the intellect is a memory for patterns which
it might create which chance or a performing brain might trigger into our
awareness. IMO this description dilutes the idea of moral levels. "AN
INQUIRY INTO MORALS" becomes a plumbing problem, what pipe to use, how to
place it? I don't think that was Pirsig's meaning.
For myself I try to keep it simple. I know what I am doing. In order to
sing well, I try to breathe in a certain way. I am hungry. If I jump off a
high wall I might break my ankle.
Joe
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