From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Aug 16 2003 - 04:44:09 BST
Paul said:
"the best description of the mythos is a collection of intellectual
patterns" This obviously needs further expansion, so here is a start.
In ZMM Pirsig describes the mythos
"The mythos-over-logos argument points to the fact that each child is born
as ignorant as any caveman. What keeps the world from reverting to the
Neanderthal with each generation is the continuing, ongoing mythos,
transformed into logos but still mythos, the huge body of common knowledge
that unites our minds as cells are united in the body of man. To feel that
one is not so united, that one can accept or discard this mythos as one
pleases, is not to understand what the mythos is."
Paul also said:
So to expand my definition slightly- the mythos is the collection of
socially learned or approved intellectual patterns of value. As a
consequence, I think that associating the mythos solely with social patterns
seems to miss some of the key points made by the MOQ.
dmb says:
I think on of the operative phrases here is, "transformed into logos, but
still mythos" . I think what he's saying is that today's mythos is made up
of both social and intellectual patterns. Once upon a time the mythos was
almost entirely made of social patterns, but now includes both. He's not
saying that myth and logic are the same thing. He's not saying that social
and intellectual patterns are anything less than seperate and discrete. And
of course Pirsig insists that all of our intellectual descriptions are
culturally derived and that the logos emerged from the old mythos. The
difference between the levels remains even if the culture contains both. So,
I appreciate your clarification on this because I'm quite sure that "a
collection of intellectual patterns" is NOT THE BEST description of the
mythos. Our Western mythos includes intellectual patterns, but that wasn't
always true and it might not be true even now in some cultures. I mean, it
seems to me that the mythos MUST include social level patterns, but can and
has existed without intellectual patterns. See what I mean?
Thanks,
dmb
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