From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Sat Aug 30 2003 - 16:40:01 BST
Hi Scott,
I agreed with what you said here, but I was wondering if you felt it undermined the monolith of
'subject-object metaphysics' which is put up by Pirsig as the opposition of the MoQ. I'm coming to
think that SOM as such only really kicked in after the scientific revolution and - as you point
out - it doesn't really apply to those intellectual systems (often neo-Platonic) which emphasise
participation. (As did medieval Christian theology, in parts, of course).
Cheers
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R" <jse885@spinn.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: MD liberals, conservatives & suffering
Jim,
No, Barfield's 'participation' is not equivalent to 'attitude'. The word comes from classical and
medieval philosophy, and referred to a commonality between the human and the world that allowed the
former to know the latter, so the relation between them was seen in the middle ages as one of
microcosm and macrocosm. Barfield's thesis (based mainly on changes in word meanings, anthropology,
etc.) is that in earler times that commonality was experienced as a spiritual aspect of the world, a
stage of consciousness he calls "original participation". Gradually, as intellect developed, this
experienced spirituality lessened, and finally died out completely by around 1500 AD, and so now
instead of describing our relation to the world as microcosm/macrocosm, we describe it as
subject/object. However, according to Barfield, participation has not ceased to exist. Rather, we
have lost conscious awareness of it. "Final participation" will come about when we regain conscious
awareness of it, but without losing our intellect.
- Scott
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