From: Yale Landsberg (yale_landsberg@yalelands.com)
Date: Thu Sep 11 2003 - 01:18:16 BST
Thank you, Patrick. I had just about given up on someone here carefully
reading my fractal philosophy paper and giving me an idea of the
similarities and differences of it vs. MoQ. Regards, Yale
---- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick van den Berg" <cirandar@yahoo.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 1:48 PM
Subject: MD Re: Fractal metaphysics
> Hi YL,
>
> I wrote a reply on your post two days ago, but wasn't able to subscribe
> (again) to the list. Here it is anyhow:
>
>
> Can anyone here answer this question:
> It is my belief that the creation or recreation of a fractal
> philosophy as
> found at http://yalelands.com/frph.pdf is consistent with Persig's
> MoQ. Am
> I right or wrong about that? YL
>
> Dear YL,
>
> The pdf-file was interesting, although the ego-blown style of the author
> irritated me. It does have similarities with Pirsig seeing Lila. In the
> café he notices she notices that he is watching her, and she notices
> that he notices that she notices he is watching her, etc. ad infinitum.
> Like standing between two mirrors, you have a reflection of a reflection
> of a reflection. The fellow of this pdf-file applies a similar strategy.
>
> Two things I found particularly interesting:
> The first is that he uses a mathematical metaphor of the seemingly ease
> of going away from a spot: Any direction is adequate, north, west, south
> or inbetween. Finding a good alternative narrows you options
> considerably, however. The place you want to go is either north or south
> or another particular direction. What Pirsig says about the
> hippie-movement is that the hippies were good at walking away from the
> center of the western culture of the sixties- they didn't, however, know
> where to turn to. That's why the movement virtually bleeded to death.
>
> The second thing I found interesting was the notion of aming at turning
> towards turning towards something. It has a relation with the concept
> of free will. What does it mean to turn your attention to something (to
> will something)? In order to do that, you have to change your thinking
> from this to that (to the topic you want to focus on). And how do you
> initiate this change? By accelareting from some zero-point, so that you
> can accomplish an amount of changing your attention. But how do you
> start to accelerate? By starting to accelerate you acceleration. This
> leads to an obvious paradox. How is it ever possible to turn your
> attention towards something? How is free will possible? (This is a
> version of psychology's homunculi, by the way)
>
> The notion of a fractal philosophy is quite big and interesting.
> Relating such a big idea to the whole edifice of the MoQ seems to me
> daunting. Nevertheless interesting. Maybe cartesian philosophy (SOM)
> tries to zoom in on a fractal- hoping someday to see the ultimate
> building blocks! Pirsig would say: Hey, you're just going in one
> possible direction. There are others, not only by 'zooming in' but by
> staying at one level and walk around there, or better: zoom in a bit but
> going to the 'left' simultanously. (Fits into another metaphor of
> Pirsig: His idea of a chaqautua meaning to deepen the riverpaths of our
> behaviors, instead of creating new ones only to end up in one shallow
> homogenous river.)
>
> Let's see if I can post this, Patrick.
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward -
http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Sep 11 2003 - 01:19:17 BST