From: Yale Landsberg (yale_landsberg@yalelands.com)
Date: Thu Sep 11 2003 - 18:43:54 BST
No problem. It was not written for dabblers like you, but rather explorers
like Patrick. yale
----- Original Message -----
From: <abahn@comcast.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: MD Evolution of levels
> Hi Yale,
>
> Thanks, but I'd rather take the easy way out. :-)
>
> Andy
> > From: <abahn@comcast.net>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: MD Evolution of levels
> >
> >
> > > Hi Yale,
> > >
> > > I have read your paper. Or more honestly skimmed it. You seem to
want
> > someone
> > > on the list to confirm your belief that there is a connection between
> > Pirsig and
> > > your paper (fractal philosophy). Why don't you just tell us about the
> > > connection instead of making us needlessly wait in suspense.
> > >
> > > merely suggesting,
> > > Andy
> > >
> >
> > Hi Andy, the Fractal Philosophy paper at http://yalelands.com/frph.pdf
is
> > meant to be read and commented upon by professional and amateur
philosophers
> > willing to bet some time (expend their to to hopefully get some
worthwhile
> > reward.)
> >
> > And I am sugesting that there is a lot in it about some interest aspects
of
> > hierarchies of levels and levels of hierarchies.
> >
> > Rather than keep you in suspense about where it might be sympatico with
MoQ,
> > permit me to reference comments by one of your memebers who actually
took
>
> > the time to read and reflect upon it, instead of looking for the easy
way
> > out....
> >
> > Dear Yale,
> >
> > It was yours, the article? Then my apologies for my harsh comment at the
> > beginning at the post about 'the author'. Uhm, let me put it more mildly
> > what I said: the old Greek philosophers used this dialogue-technique, in
> > which it was true that the writer assumed rather naieve and 'stupid'
> > commenters. The technique you used addresses the reader directly, which
> > has the advantage that it can create a more personal touch, but in many
> > cases I did't assume the stance you ascribed to your potential readers.
> > And true, the recurring suggestions about the assumed stance of the
> > reader kind of irritated me (which left the reader stupid and the author
> > smart!). Anyhow, your style of writing was original and playful. Thus,
> > the attempt had DQ, but the it didn't lead (in my humble opinion) to a
> > static quality-form it potentially could have.
> > ;-)
> >
> > All the best, Patrick.
> >
> >
> > And...
> >
> >
> > Dear YL,
> >
>
> > The pdf-file was interesting, although the ego-blown style of the author
> > irritated me. It does have similarities with Pirsig seeing Lila. In the
> > café he notices she notices that he is watching her, and she notices
> > that he notices that she notices he is watching her, etc. ad infinitum.
> > Like standing between two mirrors, you have a reflection of a reflection
> > of a reflection. The fellow of this pdf-file applies a similar strategy.
> >
> > Two things I found particularly interesting:
> > The first is that he uses a mathematical metaphor of the seemingly ease
> > of going away from a spot: Any direction is adequate, north, west, south
> > or inbetween. Finding a good alternative narrows you options
> > considerably, however. The place you want to go is either north or south
> > or another particular direction. What Pirsig says about the
> > hippie-movement is that the hippies were good at walking away from the
> > center of the western culture of the sixties- they didn't, however, know
>
> > where to turn to. That's why the movement virtually bleeded to death.
> >
> > The second thing I found interesting was the notion of aming at turning
> > towards turning towards something. It has a relation with the concept
> > of free will. What does it mean to turn your attention to something (to
> > will something)? In order to do that, you have to change your thinking
> > from this to that (to the topic you want to focus on). And how do you
> > initiate this change? By accelareting from some zero-point, so that you
> > can accomplish an amount of changing your attention. But how do you
> > start to accelerate? By starting to accelerate you acceleration. This
> > leads to an obvious paradox. How is it ever possible to turn your
> > attention towards something? How is free will possible? (This is a
> > version of psychology's homunculi, by the way)
> >
> > The notion of a fractal philosophy is quite big and interesting.
> > Relating such a big idea to the whole edifice of the MoQ seems to me
>
> > daunting. Nevertheless interesting. Maybe cartesian philosophy (SOM)
> > tries to zoom in on a fractal- hoping someday to see the ultimate
> > building blocks! Pirsig would say: Hey, you're just going in one
> > possible direction. There are others, not only by 'zooming in' but by
> > staying at one level and walk around there, or better: zoom in a bit but
> > going to the 'left' simultanously. (Fits into another metaphor of
> > Pirsig: His idea of a chaqautua meaning to deepen the riverpaths of our
> > behaviors, instead of creating new ones only to end up in one shallow
> > homogenous river.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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> >
>
>
>
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