Re: MD fractal filosophy

From: Yale Landsberg (yale_landsberg@yalelands.com)
Date: Mon Sep 15 2003 - 17:57:15 BST

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    Hi Ian!

    While I do express my rather expansive ideas in an extremely terse form (in
    just nine pages), I tend to agree with you about both parties. :-)

    BTW, as there does seem to be a problem with downloading the pdf version, I
    am directing you to the lesser HTML version http://yalelands.com/frph.htm
    which does not yet quite have the exact physical layout of words and phrases
    that I am laying out, but it will give you a good idea of what my fractal
    philosophy is all about -- and why I thought you would find it worthwhile
    reading. Note: In order for the reader to get what I am seeking to convey,
    the paper has to be read the same way a computer reads every bit of a
    program: step-by-step in order, and without skipping words, bytes or even
    bits.

    Regards, Y.S.Y. Landsberg

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:49 AM
    Subject: RE: MD fractal filosophy

    > Yale,
    >
    > Just to bring you back down to earth, I don't reckon Wolfram is that hard
    to
    > beat.
    > Anyone who can express their ideas in a few pages beats Wolfram hands down
    > :-)
    >
    > I will read your paper, though currently your server seems unavaliable for
    > download ?
    >
    > Ian
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    > [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Yale Landsberg
    > Sent: 14 September 2003 21:55
    > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    > Subject: Re: MD fractal filosophy
    >
    >
    > Ian,
    >
    > Different readers give me very different views of what they see in
    > http://yalelands.com/frph.pdf.
    >
    > For example, I've mentioned here some feedback from member Patrick van den
    > Berg relating the paper to MoQ principles, and I've mentioned feedback
    from
    > a toxologist/pharmacologist relating it to Peirce.
    >
    > And I've mentioned feedback from a science writer who sees aspects of QM
    in
    > it.
    >
    > As you mentioned Wolfram, how about this: an (a bit too flattering)
    response
    > from a computer programmer/data base administrator. But please note that
    > like playing tennis or golf or engagng in even more enjoyable activities,
    > you are best off experiencing Fractal Philosophy rather than hearing about
    > it...
    >
    > _________
    >
    > Yale,
    >
    > While conventional mathematical descriptions of fractals have the
    generator
    > of a Koch Curve as the replacing of the middle 1/3 section of the intiator
    > by two line segments each of 1/3 unit length, your considering the next
    > generation of the fractal as the generator is much easier for a
    > non-mathematician like me to understand and visualize. Plus your frph
    paper
    > offers wonderful though I think you will agree not easy to grasp with one
    > reading fascinating insights about the most basic part of computer
    science.
    > Because if one sees the initial state of a fractal as the initiator and
    the
    > final state as the generator, then what goes on during that transformation
    > is exactly like the computational process occuring on my Mac between data
    > input and data output.
    >
    > I am a C++ programmer and database administrator, and you are obviously a
    > great mathematician. So please do not take this as a criticism. I think
    what
    > you have succeeded in doing in your paper which only on the surface is
    about
    > Heraclitus and the I Ching is to expose non-academic computer
    professionals
    > like me to the possibility that computations can simultaneously be both
    > digital AND analogue. And if I am correct, you have out trumped even the
    > great Steven Wolfram. Good luck!
    >
    > _______________
    >
    >
    > Ian, please note two more things: 1) I am not a mathematician. 2) Anyone
    > such as yourself interested in semantic ontology will have a grand old
    time
    > with my above frph.pdf paper. Regards, yale
    > ...
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 11:46 AM
    > Subject: RE: MD fractal filosophy
    >
    >
    > > Yale,
    > >
    > > can I add my plea to these.
    > > Perhaps a summary / teaser of the key messages in your paper would help
    > us.
    > >
    > > Not having yet read your paper, I for one have some thoughts about the
    > > chaotic (pseudo-cyclic, pseudo-trending) nature of "memetics" (the way
    > > thought and knowledge evolve), and consequently I have an interest in
    > > fractals beyond the pretty images they can create - somewhere close to
    > > Dawkins "generators" and Wolfram's "cellular automata" I guess. I also
    > live
    > > in hope that such mechanisms may lie behind the evolution of / between
    > > levels in Pirsig's MoQ and similar hierarchical views about how the
    world
    > is
    > > arranged.
    > >
    > > I may just have to read it anyway :-)
    > >
    > > Ian Glendinning
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    > > [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of David Buchanan
    > > Sent: 14 September 2003 00:29
    > > To: 'moq_discuss@moq.org'
    > > Subject: MD fractal filosophy
    > >
    > >
    > > Andy, Yale and all
    > >
    > > Andy said to Yale:
    > > I have read your paper. Or more honestly skimmed it. You seem to want
    > > someone on the list to confirm your belief that there is a connection
    > > between Pirsig and your paper (fractal philosophy). Why don't you just
    > tell
    > > us about the
    > > connection instead of making us needlessly wait in suspense.
    > >
    > > dmb adds:
    > > Yea. Why not dish up some kind of summary? Why not make us curious? Who
    > > wants a homework assignment? Make it fun.
    > >
    > >
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