From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Sep 21 2003 - 15:22:01 BST
Hi DMB
Rorty says he has been drawn to reading
philosophy all his life, this is a long way
from rejecting philosophy, he also sees
some philosophy works as great art, I can buy that.
However he does not recommend philosophy to
those who do not have this itch, sometimes I
wonder what this itch has done to my life!
Regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: RE: MD MoQ platypuses
> Andy and y'all:
>
> dmb had said:
> "Its not about making reference to some objective dream (whatever that
is),
> its about making reference to experience and history, to life as it is
> lived."
>
> Andy replied:
> This is exactly right and, I think, one of the most important insights you
> can get from Rorty. Since you agree that Moral principles can not be
> objectively defined, I think the problem is that you disagree with his
> jargon.
>
> dmb says:
> Disagree with his jargon? No. That's like saying I disagree with the
> Japanese language. Its not that I disagree with it. The problem is that it
> doesn't mean anything to me. But when and if I should ever come to
> understand it, then I will surely disagree. :-)
>
> Andy continued:
> You want more moral principles, not less of them. Rorty would say we need
> new and better useful tools, but you in fact are arguing for the same
thing
> using different words. I don't see a difference in your views, other than
> you each are using different words to get the same point accross.
>
> dmb says:
> I have to take your word for it because, at this point, I really have no
way
> of knowing whether we agree or not.
>
> Andy continued:
> Rorty is not arguing that we do not need morality. He is not even arguing
> that we can do without moral principles. He is just saying that any moral
> principle cannot be justified outside of our "experience and history, to
> life as it is lived." Then the problem arises because individuals,
groups,
> nations, and societies have different experience and history and lives
being
> lived. This is where intersubjective agreement and persuasion comes in.
>
> dmb says:
> What I don't get here is the assertion that any serious thinker ever said
> otherwise. The only ones I've ever known to assert moral principles as
being
> outside of history or experience were very ignorant religious people. I've
> asked repeatedly for an example of someone actally making that assertion
and
> the only thing remotely LIKE an answer was so vague as to literally
include
> everybody from Plato to Kant. That doesn't help. It's not really something
a
> guy can sink his teeth into. And the little bit of research I did on this
> question has lead me to believe that this "ahistorical" charge didn't
occur
> until the 20th century by just two guys and was then projected backward to
> comdemn all of Western Philosophy. Well, I studied Western Philosophy in
> college and I'm telling you such a thing never was even hinted at. So its
a
> little hard to swallow at this point.
>
> Andy said:
> I think you are taking Rorty's philosophy far from where he would want it
to
> go. If you only hear Rorty as saying in Platt's words "anything goes" then
> you will be missing out on almost all of his insights and inspiration.
> Nobody loves a slogan better than Platt, but this is a characterization
that
> completely misrepresents Rorty's philosophy. I hope you can come away
with
> a better view of Rorty than this.
>
> dmb says:
> Anything goes? Only Platt would dare to use a lyric from a prudish 1920's
> pop tune. No. Believe me, the distance between my views and his can only
be
> measured in lightyears. But I certainly have gotten the impression that
> Rorty not only doesn't HAVE a philosophy, he seems to hate philosophy and
> philosophers. But maybe I've just confused him with Matt.
>
>
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