From: MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 25 2003 - 21:10:29 BST
David,
David said:
You're right that this is a very key passage because it is hard for a pragmatist to swallow. But is it not a very historical statement? It implies we should see nature as an achievement, and therefore tey would are justified in valuing one of its more difficult achievements over one of its less so. In that sense it implies it took more time and effort to achieve. This is a very in-history form of valuation, it says for all time in the sense that what has now passed cannot be changed, we are pretty certain what is the more complex and in some sense higher form of being.
Matt:
I just can't swallow that gloss. That statement isn't a historical statement. Pirsig's talk of evolutionary patterns is historical, but talk of "now and forever" is not. I don't see where you can smuggle in an eraser with "forever". As far as I can tell, Pirsig isn't just talking about the frozen past, but also the future. What gets Pirsig into trouble is the opposition between an absolutely, scientific moral and an arbitrary social convention. You wouldn't oppose them unless you thought arbitrary social conventions existed. But talk of evolutionary patterns should neutralize the idea of "arbitrariness". Things exist because they evolved that way and we should be able to trace their evolution and give an account of why they exist. If you do believe in the evolution of society (which it is hard not to), the only reason to oppose the two is if you want to move from arbitrary social conventions to absolute morals. It seems to me that implies some sort of correspondenc
e, getting more and more of our "arbitrary" social conventions to match up with absolute morals. If it doesn't imply correspondence, then how would you know if you moved from arbitrariness to absoluteness?
Matt
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