Re: MD Dealing with S/O

From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Thu Oct 02 2003 - 10:08:20 BST

  • Next message: Richard Loggins: "Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig"

    Hi Bo,

    > A very short version of my objection is that most people - Pirsig
    > included - tend to define intellect as the ABILITY to manipulate
    > symbols. I want it to be the value of the symbol/experience DIVIDE
    > itself. Can you see the connection to ZMM about "gravity sitting 'out
    > there' waiting for Newton to discover it"? Like P. of ZMM I claim that
    > there were no symbols (different from experience) until the intellectual
    > value CREATED this schism, while so many want to see symbols
    > "sitting out there" waiting for someone to start manipulating them.

    I think that is one of the clearest accounts of SOLAQI I've yet read. And it is one with which (with
    qualifications) I have a great deal of sympathy, at least in so far as it describes intellectual
    value, if not the fourth level as a whole. The point of my last set of questions on this is that
    there seems a big gap in the 'standard' account relating to what actually does the responding to
    Quality on the fourth level; on which I've already offered my answer.

    I think there is much in Pirsig's latest material which supports your view, principally that
    emphasis on symbols standing for experience etc; "Intellectuality occurs when these customs as well
    as biological and inorganic patterns are designated with a sign that stands for them and these signs
    are manipulated independently of
    the patterns they stand for. "Intellect" can then be defined very loosely as the level of
    independently manipulable signs...."

    What is the 'independence' referred to, if not something related to - if not equivalent to -
    objective reasoning?

    Anyhow, still thinking about this. To be continued....

    Sam

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