RE: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri Oct 03 2003 - 10:10:17 BST

  • Next message: Paul Turner: "MD MOQ and idealism"

    Hi Sam

    [Sam:]
    In his letter to you, Pirsig writes:
    > You have to cut it off somewhere, and it seems to me the
    > greatest meaning can be given to the intellectual level if it is
    > confined to the skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no
    > corresponding particular experience and which behave according to
    rules
    > of their own.

    Do you have any idea about who or what might be *doing* the manipulation
    (ie, who or what has the
    'skill')? Or is it that the symbols react to Quality on their own,
    without an intermediary? Or
    something else?

    [Paul:]
    I think our language presupposes the necessity for "something" to have
    the skill or "something" to react that is in addition to or outside of
    the manipulation or the reaction itself and this makes it difficult to
    answer without sounding intentionally esoteric.

    Nonetheless, one answer to your question may be given by drawing on a
    crude analogy with the weather. When we talk of "the weather", we say
    "it is raining", "it is windy" and so on. If we ask what the "it" is
    that is raining without reference to rain or wind we find ourselves
    thinking of nothing. In a similar way, if we ask "what is it that is
    thinking [manipulating symbols]?" it is normal to answer with "the
    mind". If we then ask what the mind is without reference to thinking
    [manipulating] or thoughts [symbols] I suggest we may equally find
    ourselves thinking of nothing. In either case, one is not prevented from
    talking meaningfully about "the weather" or "the mind" but it is always
    with reference to their processes.

    Another answer is provided in a piece of Buddhist literature I recently
    quoted:

    When questioned by Mara "what is a person?", Vajira answered "Mara, why
    do you insist on the word "person"? There is nothing here but a group of
    processes. Just as the word "cart" is used when the parts are combined,
    so the word "person" is commonly used when the five skhandas* are
    present."

    * Skhandas means something like "impermanent heaps" - body, feeling,
    perception, karma and consciousness

    An MOQ answer might be - it is not that Sam has intellectual patterns;
    it is intellectual patterns that have Sam.

    Cheers

    Paul

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