Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

From: Richard Loggins (brloggins@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Oct 05 2003 - 17:12:37 BST

  • Next message: Paul Turner: "RE: MD MOQ and idealism"

    I don't do Heidegger

    David MOREY <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:Rich
     
    You should do stand-up Rich. You forgot to deal with Heidegger by the way?
     
    Regards
    David M
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Richard Loggins
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:43 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

    David M and Matt,
    Rorty is a materialist and Pirsig is an idealist. Rorty in particular puts on a good face about how he is above it all or outside it all and Pirsig has tried to convince that the MoQ is a new monism, but let's be honest for a split sedcond before we believe this. Hasn't Rorty just stepped outside philosophy and from outside tried to convince the insiders that what he's now talking aobut needs to considered philosophy, and hasn't Pirsig taken an idealist stance, put a Dynamic Quality top hat onto it, and called it a new metaphysics?
    Rich

    MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT <mpkundert@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
    Rich,

    Rich said:
    There are really only 2 philosophies, materialism and idealism, dressed up in many different variations, and it is impossible to fall outside either of their traps. The sooner you realize this the faster you will grow up.

    Matt:
    David nor I believe this. As pragmatists (David's Heideggerian form or my Rortyan form), we see the trap between materialism and idealism as being the trap of Platonism or the metaphysics of presence (to use two of Heidegger's monikers) or representationalism (to use a Rortyan moniker) or SOM (to use Pirsig's). Pragmatists like Heidegger, Rorty, and Pirsig (when he's being a good boy) want to move beyond this dichotomy. To grow up, for these people, is to see that it isn't a trap, that it isn't impossible to not fall into either materialism or idealism. This is the rhetorical move that Pirsig identified as "not ente! ring the arena". This move circumvents the traps. It also begs the question in our favor, just as continuing to assert that we fall into materialism or idealism whether we want to or not begs the question in your favor.

    Matt

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