From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Oct 10 2003 - 20:40:51 BST
Hi
Good last point, philosophy has dropped
out of education/society/politics yet
we are so dominated by s single metaphysics.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mati Palm-Leis" <mpalm@merr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:24 AM
Subject: RE: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig
> Paul & MOQ folks,
>
> I think the term that has been used before is lurker, which I am not
> totally fond of because of the social malfeasance that is implied. I
> guess benchwarmer might be more appropriate. I have been reading over
> the past three months with great interest this discussion/debate about
> the Intellectual Level. My personal interest revolves around a possible
> interest in writing a doctorate thesis with MOQ as a foundation to build
> an educational leadership paradigm. Nothing of great significance yet,
> however the process defining the Intellectual Level is a critical
> component. I have tended to stay on the sidelines while the heavy
> hitters go at it. It has been interesting to stay the least. With
> Pirsig's new letter I have also read with great interest and thought I
> might share a few comments before returning quietly to the sidelines.
>
> Upfront I would like to thank Paul for sharing his letter. I understand
> his concerns about having done so. I am reminded in LILA when Rigel
> takes a crack at Phaedrus ideas. Phaedrus stated that he should have
> seen it coming. I suspect Pirsig would understand the critical comments
> and expected them as a part of the MOQ "Celebrity" status he is.
> Personally I share your warm regards for Pirsig thoughts and comments
> and I also believe that he has made some important contributions with
> this letter.
>
> The first contribution of the letter that I see it is that he does not
> have the magic answer. It seems he has thought about this for sometime
> and has not committed to any definition or rational for defining the
> Intellectual Level. I am sure if he had a committed rational that would
> have helped he would have given it to us. Also he seems fairly
> comfortable in us trying figuring it out on our own.
>
> About three weeks I asked an Art Teacher/Friend and philosophical novice
> the following question, "Is Art Real, and if so how do you know?" She
> shot back, when Louis Armstrong was asked "What is Jazz" he replied,
> "Man, if you gotta ask you'll never know." We laughed and I loved her
> answer and it made even more sense when Pirsig made the comment that he
> was annoyed originally being asked what the intellectual level is?
>
> As to the importance of defining the intellectual level, simply put for
> myself it will promote a greater understanding about reality of the
> intellectual level just as MOQ has redefined the reality we have come to
> understand. As to Pirsig comments regarding Zen, I find Zen is a great
> mirror of what MOQ isn't. I have my doubts about Zen Buddhism being the
> stepping stone to the understanding of the intellectual level, but
> having said that I hope Pirsig is right about the reality of the
> definition lies in those of us who are intellectual. :)
>
> Next on my mind is Pirsig statement, "When getting into a definition of
> the intellectual level much clarity can be gained by recognizing a
> parallel with lower level." Thank you DMB for your comments on this
> subject. Agreed "something more" is what we are trying to understand
> and the values patterns that define it. Whatever the answer for what the
> intellectual level is, it should be a value pattern that can be easily
> delineated for the other three levels, and yet easily understood how the
> intellectual level is related to the three levels. Not an easy task but
> I think an important one.
>
> Finally I would like to thank Bodvar for his very important comment of
> his on 10/6 "At times I wish we would heed the point about a child
> understanding the Quality Idea and forget about these out-of-this-world
> definitions of intellect." One of the great tragedies of the SOM is
> that it has relegated philosophy to something that has little value and
> meaning to people lives and yet plagues it in so many ways. As an
> educator in the field I see it everyday. It is my hope that we can
> further the discussion that everybody can understand.
>
> Take care,
> Mati
>
>
>
>
>
>
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