From: Dan Glover (daneglover@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct 13 2003 - 02:33:57 BST
Hello everyone
>From: skutvik@online.no
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Dealing with S/O
>Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:40:29 +0200
>
>Hi Dan
>
>3 Oct. you wrote:
> > You haven't alienated me at all; my apologies if I've made it seem so.
> > There's nothing wrong with your SOLAQI and I didn't mean to suggest
> > there is. I just don't agree with where you're taking it -- that
> > doesn't mean it's wrong. While I may not be championing the idea you
> > know I've at least tried to understand what you're saying to the best
> > of my ability. There's nothing wrong all of a sudden, rather the work
> > I put into Lila's Child has perhaps changed how I once viewed the MOQ.
> > I trust my viewpoint has changed for the better but there are times
> > when I wonder...
>
>Mighty glad to hear this. I must say that Pirsig's letter seemed a
>certain move towards the S/O-intellect (the Greeks) .....at least away
>from the idea-intellect, so maybe in some future letter he will come all
>the way.;-)
Hi Bo
I guess I interpret Robert Pirsig's letter a bit differently than you,
especially in light of the last paragraph.
>
> > Hopefully you know I'm not being abusive like some people in the
> > discussion group are prone to being. I'm just here to understand and
> > make myself understood.
>
>Yes, you always keep a most civil tone, I may seem too bombastic,
>but I had my own experience and when reading ZMM I interpreted it in
>the light of that and continued to do so with LILA, and still see it as
>the right way.
It's true we each have our own experiences which filter how we view the MOQ.
>
> > Let's consider the person who attempts to teach a dog to read and
> > write. Surely no matter how many times they write "water" in one paw
> > while running water over another paw, the dog will not form an
> > understanding as to what the person is attempting to communicate. The
> > dog lacks the intelligence to understand an intellectual symbol like a
> > word. A dog has evolved other traits to survive.
>
>Right, intellect is out of society, not out of biology and IMO language
>is/was the social "carbon" that DQ used to escape society. However,
>language isn't intellect. Helen Keller was no "animal" in spite of her
>handicaps, she had all the social patterns needed for intellect once
>the seed crystal was available.
Oh yes, we are animals, but what strange animals! Helen Keller described
herself as "a wild, unruly child who kicked, scratched and screamed." The
idea of water opened up the social realm for Ms. Keller in a way no other
but the human animal is capable of apprehending. The idea came first.
>
> > Personally, reading Robert Pirsig's annotations in Lila's Child for
> > the first time opened my eyes to a number of ideas that I'd missed
> > reading ZMM and Lila (both several times). I look at LC as sort of a
> > synthesis of RMP's ideas in regards to the ambiguities raised by
> > members of the Lila Squad. I think the book is invaluable to
> > understanding the MOQ as RMP intends it. It could be I'm wrong.
>
>You are not wrong in your opinion about "Lila's Child" as a help in
>clarifying the MOQ ...and maybe about Pirsig's intentions too, but it
>can be that the MOQ is even grander than Pirsig.
Perhaps we could make an analogy with Einstein's relativity. Nearly 50 years
after his death, researchers today are still testing Einstein's theories to
see if he was right. The theory of relativity may itself be grander than
Einstein but without him dreaming up the idea, there would be no theory.
>
> > It's
> > true that I've been told by more than one person that LC is a pile of
> > crap. I've seriously considered whether it should even be published at
> > all or not. I get the feeling you might think not? I even thought
> > about just sitting on the document, keeping it for myself so to speak.
>
>"The Lila Child" is a great book in itself and your achievement is not
>dependent upon what people may think about Pirsig's sayings. Maybe
>our long discussion has familiarized us with the MOQ to a degree
>almost beyond him. At least we have charted more routes than he
>single-handed could have managed and its future ramifications no
>one can oversee, but you are forever connected with it.
As are you.
>
> > Maybe share it with a few close friends. Maybe. But that seemed wrong
> > somehow. I suppose only time will tell. I keep working on LC to make
> > it better and if anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them.
>
>I'm grateful you published it, and a second edition may soon be
>required.
Perhaps!
>
> > But if the intellect is the SOM division, is it possible to think
> > quality thoughts and understand Quality Metaphysics?
>
>Yes, and yes again, but the moment you do you are not thinking from
>the intellectual LEVEL's premises.
>
> > Are you saying
> > that we all here in this discussion group are operating in a sphere
> > beyond intellect?
>
>Obviously not all :-)
;-)
>
> > I have to say, I'm struggling to understand a lot of
> > what is said here so I don't feel all that intellectual, much less
> > beyond intellectual.
>
>Beyond the intellectual LEVEL isn't beyond thinking or logic or
>anything, we constantly revert to (think from) society biology's
>premises so that require no supernatural powers.
If a particularly difficult problem confronts me, I consider it carefully
and then forget about it. Later an inspiration hits me, most times when I'm
actively engaged in another activity like driving or taking a shower.
Without the idea first though, no inspiration would occur.
Best wishes,
Dan
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