Re: MD Intellectual level - New letter from Pirsig

From: Patrick van den Berg (cirandar@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Oct 13 2003 - 11:19:00 BST

  • Next message: Patrick van den Berg: "Re: MD the nature of value"

    Hi David H,

    Your posts are interesting as usual.

    --- David MOREY <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > Language all the way down, perceptions full of value judgements,
    > intelligence all over the place, I'm sure we've taken a long walk away
    > from
    > physicalism somewhere. My main point below was to break up what looks
    > to me like rather dogmatic thinking over the idea of an intellectual
    > level.
    > Mainly as a support to some of Scott's inclinations towards putting
    > intelligence/
    > purpose back into nature/cosmos. I think DQ really calls for a rethink
    > about
    > time, that we may be wrong to think cause (past) produces effect
    > (now).
    > I am trying to think of the potential of the idea that the future
    > (many-possible) sacrifices its
    > potential to produce finite(this-world)/now. It is a way of dealing
    > with the
    > many-world
    > nature of quantum-potential without suggesting that there must
    > actually be a
    > creation of many
    > worlds every time quantum potential collapses. You see the future in
    > quantum
    > theory (FIELDS)
    > exists before the now (particle/event). And this is true of our actual
    > experience, our awareness
    > of the future alters what we do in the present.

    It's even stronger than that. The future can alter the past in physical
    and biological (conscious) systems.
    Wheeler's delayed choice experiment measures the location of fotons
    AFTER the fotons (should) have passed the slits. But still the
    wavepattern dissapears on the screen. So the quantum potential is a
    whole timespan in which 'past', 'present' and 'future' has no meaning,
    and this you can deduce from the collapsed patterns on the screen.
    The future can also change the past for us humans. In a way, if you have
    a precognitive dream (dream about a future event) you can also describe
    this as a now-event (the actualilty) that influences the past (the
    dream).

    We're made of matter (or levels) that have these properties, but there
    is scientific evidence of e.g. retrokinesis, people influencing decay of
    radioactive particles (which should be random according to conventional
    explanation) AFTER they have been recorded. This would mean that people
    can influence the collapse of a wavefunction in the past (or that the
    collapse of this wavefunction in the now is influenced by a conscious
    observer in the future), or that in unobserved states, the wavefunction
    collapses only when people observe it consciously. The latter
    explanation would mean that a tape-recorder with recorded 0's and 1's is
    in a superposition until someone plays the information on it, (which
    then is collapsed in nonrandom directions by the conscious observer.)

    I've tried to locate an article by Dick Bierman on the web, but the
    links are broken. But people like him and Dean Radin and all have some
    convincing amount of experiments on this, if you're interested you could
    look on the web with these names.

    Greetings, Patrick

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