Re: MD Truth

From: Patrick van den Berg (cirandar@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Oct 20 2003 - 12:32:19 BST

  • Next message: Paul Turner: "RE: MD Truth"

    Hi Mark,

    --- Valuemetaphysics@aol.com wrote:
    > Forum,
    > Truth is closely connected, perhaps inseparable from reason and
    > rationality.
    > This being the case, would it be helpful to view truth as an
    > instrument?
    > Truth is valuable as a methodology; there appear to be a great number
    > of rational
    > methodologies from which to choose.
    > Does this indicate that reason is value driven?

    I think so, yes. And truth is indeed inseparable from reason and
    rationality, but to see truth one perhaps needs more ingredients, such
    as intuition. We have Goedel's theorem saying that (logical) truth can't
    be caught in a finite net. A minority of scientists has used this
    theorem to argue that because humans can see truth in mathematical
    statements and more, we're not bound to rational rules.
    This is a statement that is contested by many, in the AI field, and here
    on the MoQ-forum also. I don't care to bring up this discussion again,
    but there are two related assumptions that are either explicity or
    implicitely made in the discussion. a) some people assume that seeing
    truth is a cognitive quality by itself (based on but not determined by
    logical steps), as opposed to people who see truth as merely a
    pragmatical convention when a certain theory works (in the mind or in
    reality). b) Some people assume that the basis on which we found truth
    is on the conscious side, others assume that there is unconsious
    processing that biases or even creates on the conscious side the feeling
    or judgement of truth.

    The two assumptions, whether held 'true' or 'untrue', are related in the
    sense that once you assume that humans can't see truth based on
    consciously laid bare assumptions and logical steps, but assume that
    truth is processed partly unconsious or even pulls a joke with the
    informational content of our brain which is conscious, indeed the best
    we can say about truth is that it is that which 'works'. (Sorry for this
    long sentence).
    I think there's not only on the process of seeing concrete logical
    steps, but also the process of intuition. Intuition is like seeing
    vaguely a whole perceptual field, concrete rationality is like seeing
    sharply only an isolated part of the field. You can assume that
    intuition is just not seeing what 'is out there' good enough, but that
    what is 'out there' is defined and precise nevertheless. This relates
    very much to the assumptions of SOM. You can take intuition as being a
    form of quality by itself, not subdued by an objective world out there,
    but simply as a way of apprehending certain features of reality (that
    goes beyond the subject-object split).
    Anyhow, it could be the case that the act of choosing methodologies is
    an intuitive process, unless you assume that there can be found a
    methodology to choose the best methodology!

    Hope this makes sense a bit. You incidentally hit upon something that
    intrigues me a lot. With some things often brooding in one's mind, it's
    sometimes hard to bring it out and put it into words... there's a lot
    more to be said about this. Wonder what Moq'ists have to say about these
    matters.

    Greetings, Patrick.

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