Re: MD Two theories of truth

From: abahn@comcast.net
Date: Mon Nov 03 2003 - 21:56:03 GMT

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    Hi Johnny,

    Your comment (11/03/2003): "I don't think Rorty is wrong about anything, I just think it obfuscates because it seems to put the focus too far down the line and doesn't highlight the dependence on history and morality. When he says
    truth is a cultural phenomen, it seems to denigrate truth, culture, and
    phenomenons all at the same time, when what is called for is great respect
    of these things."

    Andy: I have had similar reservations about Rorty in the past. However, the more I have read of him, the more convinced I am that he does have great respect for these things. Especially American culture. Rorty does highlight history and morality, in fact, much more so than most philosophers. I think the reservations you have don't come from Rorty, but rather from particular baggage each of us carry around about ideas like truth, morality and culture.

    Johnny: It is right that morality and truth are maleable, but it
    is morality and truth that hold themselves together even as they change.
    Rorty seems to be saying that it is US that do that, and that makes people
    upset. The respect should be given to Morality, not us, as we are just one
    of Morality's creations.

    ANdy: Well, I don't think I can buy that. Saying that we are morality's creations gets back to the idea of a divine creator, which pragmatists think is irrelevant to truth and morality. I addressed this in a little more detail in a post on 11/01/2003 to DMB (same thread as this). WHen you say morality and truth hold themselves together, you don't tell us how they do that. Pirsig says ideas are contained in language which is only possible if we have a society. From a quote of Pirsig's I used earlier today in responding to DMB, "Without society there is no intellect since there would be no one to talk to anyone else and thus no language to speak and thus to contain the idea." We do hold these ideas together through communication and agreement. I don't see how morality and truth can do this on their own without our help.

    Thanks,
    Andy

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