From: Gert-Jan Peeters (gjpeeters@home.nl)
Date: Sat Nov 08 2003 - 13:43:48 GMT
> Johnny,
>
> OK. I think I see most of what you have written.
>
> Let me take you to one part where you say, "We expect apples to fall to
the
> earth because we have seen apples falling to the earth, and this is why
> apples fall to the earth."
>
> What about the concept of gravity? Where does that fit in with your
> thoughts? Do apples fall because we have seen them fall before and so
expect
> them to fall now, and then they do, or it is that objects attract
eachother
> with a gravitational force and this is the root cause of apples
accelerating
> to the earth.
> In other words, if humans and all other beings that have consciousness
were
> to disappear, would apples stop falling?
>
> Regards to you,
>
> Nathan
>
> ----- End of Original Message -----
And to make it even more complicated, your question might boil down to 'is
there a world outside our experience of that world.' So, indeed, if al that
experiences stops, that world should be able to continue without it, because
it was also build without experiencing beings. If humans and all other
beings that have consciousness were to dissappear, it would be like erasing
the intellectual, social and biological levels. You would still have an
outside-of-experience world that would continue to exist.(thus the anorganic
level) A child asks the same question when it says: "Does my teddybear exist
when I'm at school and not thinking about him?" or: "Is the
refrigirator-light really off?" If experience would be the key-word here you
could never check nor prove what the state of the teddybear is. "Mom, could
you check if my teddybear is on the bed?" For all we know the teddybear is
having a chill-out party with barbie. We could just never know. But - to
make life simpler we assume they don't party. We assume the world is out
there and we are experiencing it as players in a giant decor. (And that's
where all the static patterns of value kick in.) But all those assumptions
are just to make it all simple, without it, all would be to complicated to
have surviving chances. It would be like watching your television with just
the snowy dots - it wouldn't make anny sense. (And as soon the television
would show you some patterns you'd get interested. You are experiencing
quality right that moment!) So, the world as we know it is a temporary state
of mind that works to cope with it all. And at some moment in historie we
had science that kinda dictate how that world worked. Their explination
worked a lot better than how the medieval church explained the world. But,
after many decades, also the science started showing some contradictions
(you can read about those in Antony's mcWatts online artwork). So, the
temporary state of mind has had its best times, we're of to something
better. Something that melts these contradictions, but would still be very
usefull. A lot of people start searching and find it in the most strange
places. The ammount of wizardy and witches on the television And in personal
life has increased. Others have found the MoQ to be very usefull. So, the
world didn't change, but our explination did. And the best explination wich
gives us the least doubts starts with the assumption that experience is
reality. And without that experience there would be no reality.
Your question: "If humans and all other beings that have consciousness were
to disappear, would apples stop falling?" I don't know. But if you would say
that apples would still be falling, your saying more than that. And it takes
you down again to where you'll end up with all the contradictions. To avoid
those contradictions people use the Moq and the MoQ would give another
explanation: If consciousness has disappeared I can never be sure if apples
fall. It falls outside my experience, so it falls outside reality.
Experience is reality. No experience = no reality. No apples, no gravity,
no ground to fall on...
But then again - it's a temporary state of mind until someone finds a better
explination ..
Gegroet,
GJ
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