From: Walter Schilling (walters@cyberbeam.net)
Date: Wed Nov 26 2003 - 16:28:00 GMT
Hi All and fellow Catholics,
Being Catholic for me, does not preclude exploring the expansion of
religious thinking. I think that this makes things interesting and
exciting. I question and wonder about many parts of teachings. What could
be taken literally, what is BS from political history, what has meaning
beyond the literal words?
I first read ZMM from a borrowed copy over 20 years ago. I had seen the
book with the catchy title while waiting in a bookstore 4 years before. I
opened it and glanced and put it back. I heard it mentioned at a Unix (not
Linux) meeting 4 years later, when the author of the game Rogue mentioned it
in a speech as "the best programming book you'll ever read". He talked
about "gumption" benefits of batting monsters around in games, as a
diversionary break. With-in weeks, I saw the book while visiting my wife's
sister and brother-in-law and I borrowed it. It was a wonderful, but a hard
read. Didn't quite see the connection to computer programming then, except
maybe the concept of Quality.
Through the years I bought "Study of" and then Lila.
About 6 months ago, I BOUGHT my copy of ZMM and reread it and reread Lila.
I got much out of the rereadings. I see MANY concepts related to Object
Oriented Programming and much much more. I find myself wondering about many
things as a result.
I wonder if the concept and style of computer programming is an expression
of something more profound like Persig's Moq.
I wonder if our understanding of God is both supported by and restricted by
the historical religious teachings. I wonder if this is "static quality".
I wonder if the Moq is related to religious teachings, but using a more
current and powerful language and thought structure.
This list has been helpful, but to be honest, sometimes you all seem to be
talking beyond my academic background.
I would like to apply and integrate the concepts encapsulated in Moq into my
life.
I now have a 13 yr old son and 9 yr old daughter and their education and
development is beyond my top priority. I feel a little obsessed and I love
them very much. My son who read the latest Harry Potter in 3 days has
started ZMM. I notice that he is dragging.
I'm not sure what my point was in this email except to share and express my
thanks that you all are keeping this going.
Any comment are welcome please and if any of you have a suggestion for
another book for me and one for my children, I would be grateful.
Pax et bene,
Walt
_\/\/ _/-\ |_ -|-_
~~~_/)~~~
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On
Behalf Of Paul Turner
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:05 AM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: RE: MD MoQ and God
Hi Dan
Dan said:
How does MoQ apply to Catholism and any actual belief in God, or "a"
God. What is "The Bible"? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Paul:
Although I can't add anything to it, this excerpt from Ant McWatt's MOQ
Textbook (Section 2.5.1) may be relevant to your question.
---------------------------------------------------
Dynamic Quality as used in the MOQ is fundamentally different from how
the term 'God' is used in the theistic religions of Judaism,
Christianity and Islam. As noted above, this is because (in the context
of Northrop's definition of theism) it's non-theistic as it's
indeterminate, has no personality and is immediately apprehended.
"Quality can be equated with God, but I don't like to do so. 'God', to
most people, is a set of static intellectual and social patterns. Only
true religious mystics can correctly equate God with Dynamic Quality. In
the West, particularly around universities, these people are quite
rare." (Pirsig, 1994)
In consequence of his rejection of theism, Pirsig (1994) is sceptical
about numerous statements that supposedly represent 'God's will'.
"The others who go around saying 'God wants this,' or 'God will answer
your prayers,' are, according to the Metaphysics of Quality, engaging in
a minor form of evil. Such statements are a lower form of evolution,
intellectual patterns, attempting to contain a higher one."
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