From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Tue Dec 02 2003 - 10:32:56 GMT
Hi David
"[The Metaphysics of Quality] says that what is meant by "human rights"
is usually the moral code of intellect-vs.-society, the moral right of
intellect to be free of social control. Freedom of speech; freedom of
assembly, of travel; trial by jury; habeas corpus; government by consent
- these "human rights" are all intellect-vs.-society issues." [Lila
p.352-353]
dmb said:
The moral right of intellect to be free of social control. Surely this
is
the operative phrase. This moral code is not intended to suggest that
rights
are both social and intellectual. Quite the opposite. It points out that
the
two are in conflict.
Paul:
Agreed, that is why I posted to the quote. In MOQ terms, democracy
cannot be adequately explained without the concept of competing levels
of value. It is so important to our culture because it is not simply a
pattern of intellectual quality; it is an identification of a moral
code.
dmb said:
"Intellect can support static patterns of society without fear of
domination by carefully distinguishing those moral issues that are
social-biological from those that are intellectual-social and making
sure there is no encroachment either way." [Lila p.345]
"We must understand that when a society undermines intellectual freedom
for
its own purposes it is absolutely morally bad, but when it represses
biological freedom for its own purposes it is absolutely morally good.
These
moral bads and goods are not just "customs." They are as real as rocks
and
trees. " [Lila p.355-356]
dmb says:
See? Its a hierarchy. The lesser should never be allowed to control the
greater or more evolved level.
Paul:
Well yes, this is why I posted the quotes. The social level controls the
biological level. Right now in Iraq, the strongest social pattern doing
that job is the allied forces and they cannot stick around forever.
Therefore, stable social patterns (ones which don't destroy existing
Islamic cultural patterns) need to be put in place before any ideas of
intellectual freedom can take hold. You can't paste democracy directly
onto biological patterns. The Iraqis need to decide which social
patterns they should build on. Related to this is a recent survey of
3,000 Iraqis which expressed the following thoughts:
"Over the next 12 months, they wanted peace and stability and a better
life in material terms; what they feared most was insecurity, chaos and
civil war."
Paul:
Stable social patterns prevent "insecurity, chaos and civil war." The
following results are interesting:
"Asked to choose the form of government Iraq needed now, 90% of those
interviewed - in their own homes - said an Iraqi democracy, and
overwhelmingly rejected the idea that democracy was only for Westerners
and would not work in Iraq.
But more than two-thirds also wanted a strong leader; slightly fewer
(61%) agreed that the government should be made up mainly of religious
leaders; and there was little support for the American-British
occupation authority continuing to play a role.
In contrast with all other Iraqi institutions, religious leaders command
the trust of the people - though when asked to suggest the best thing
that could happen in the next year, fewer than 1% said an Islamic
government." [Source: Iraqis 'welcome Saddam's fall' By Barnaby Mason,
BBC diplomatic correspondent, www.bbc.co.uk]
What does the MOQ have to say about trust?
Cheers
Paul
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