Re: MD Fifth Level?

From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Mon Dec 08 2003 - 23:38:29 GMT

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    Hi Matt,
     
    > Yeah, I probably sounded wishy-washy on a fifth level 'cuz I didn't talk about
    > it. I did talk about it before, though, in a post called "A Brief Proposal
    > for a 5th level" back in the beginning of August. I made a grab for Sam's
    > proposal for a rehabiliatated 4th level and tacked it on top of the other four
    > Pirsigian levels, though not before redefining them. Here's what I ended up
    > with:
    >
    > Inorganic level - non-replicating persistence
    > Biological level - replicating persistence
    > Social level - non-linguistic semiotic behavior
    > Intellectual level - linguistic semiotic behavior
    > Eudaimonic level - autonomous behavior

    I guess semiotic is my new word for the day. My dictionary says it means
    symbol-based communication. You emphasized that the differences between
    levels must be substantial to satisfy Pirsig's requirement that they are
    discrete. I don't think linguistic/non-linguistic is substantial enough to
    merit separate levels (and probably not even as discrete as it sounds). I
    like better the line that Pirsig draws for the intellectual level as the
    manipulation of symbols that stand for patterns of experience. I don't see
    why it is important that linguistic and non-linguistic patterns each have
    their own levels.

    I don't understand how a eudaimonic pattern of experience compares to an
    intellectual one in this formulation.

     You say that you would rather think of the levels as stages of development
    in history rather than as ontological types (I'm not sure I understand that
    term either) which may mean we aren't even talking about the same thing when
    we talk about the levels. I thought you were willing to play metaphysics
    for a while?

    Regards,
    Steve

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