From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Fri Jan 23 2004 - 22:41:03 GMT
Dear Matt,
What about defining 'pragmatism' as 'self-denying
metaphysics/philosophy/vocabulary'...?
You criticize metaphysical answers on metaphysical questions as 'leaping out
of experience' (17 Nov 2003 21:00:53 -0600). When countered that your
criticism implies other metaphysical answers on these metaphysical
questions, you immunize your criticism by defining away the problem:
'metaphysical' questions suppose by definition an appearance/reality
distinction (22 Nov 2003 08:08:10 -0600) and should be ignored by
pragmatists.
Alternatives you proposed were 'philosophy', which you (not I) defined as
'seeing how things hang together', and 'vocabulary' (defined by you as 'a
systematic arrangement or organization of your beliefs'). When I follow your
definition, you start telling me that philosophy either doesn't make much of
a difference, or should be relegated to the private realm. Organizing one's
beliefs should not be done with metaphysical questions. The way people
actually do it is quite trivial and personal. In other words (mine):
people's beliefs aren't arranged that systematically and are quite
unorganized. What's makes a real difference (for doing the real, social
stuff that's needed) is a shared 'political vocabulary' and/or one that's
based on 'the belief in democracy and the desire to minimize cruelty in the
world'.
If I would follow you in that move and would say, 'well, o.k., let's see if
we can formulate a shared political vocabulary, based on a belief in
democracy and the desire to minimize cruelty in the world' that utilizes as
best as possible Pirsig's ideas (interpreting them in a way that makes him
into a pragmatist), you will probably back out again by relegating
philosophy, formulating shared vocabulary or whatever you want to call it
now to a 'private realm'.
I'm getting frustrated. What the hell CAN we do on this list (Isn't this by
its nature public and not private?) to contribute to social stuff that needs
done, to democracy and against cruelty, to the feeding, clothing and housing
of people? Do Pirsig's ideas (or those of Rorty, or any ideas at all) have
any relevance to really doing something useful? Is this list just a
playground to let ourselves go in an irrelevant, trivial, private hobby?
Or are you just playing a game with me? Making a sport of avoiding to 'bite'
and 'biting' only occasionally (e.g. 14 Dec 2003 19:57:33 -0600) for
whatever private reason you may have?
I DO maintain (and have explained in my 'economics of want and greed') that
formulating for others what they want (i.e. operating intellectually in the
public sphere) is essential in the way in which we people organize that
people get what they want. Intellectuals, those who try to convince others
to want what they want them to want, are the upcoming dominant class in
society. Metaphysics/philosophy/shared vocabulary, 'political' if you wish,
is what they use to convince, to organize others. It is not only the way in
which they organize their own beliefs, but also the way in which they
organize those of others AND the way in which they organize part of society
and economy.
You can't be serious that the only relevant ideas on the social level are
those about democracy and cruelty, can you? Sure, re-organizing beliefs,
creating shared vocabularies, answering abstract questions for the sake of
practising and thereby maintaining those shared vocabularies etc. don't
revolutionize society in the same speed as intellectual evolution. They are
relatively marginal and trivial from a social perspective. But they DO
enable a slow migration of social patterns of value towards ... whatever.
They enable social progression.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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