From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Thu Jan 29 2004 - 14:58:44 GMT
Mark 29-01-04: Hi Matt, i like this post.
You'll have to excuse me, but I do not know many of the acronyms which are
being used here. of course MoQ I understand, but MD(degree>?) SQ-SQ and
others Im not to sure on.
Mark 29-01-04: If you read, The edge of Chaos found on the forum site you
will see how these acronyms emerge from the MoQ text Lila. The 'MD' is nothing
but Major Domo from the post site! Ignore it!
To get back to the subject , relating Quality to music, and more
specifically to Asian, or Middle Eastern(generalized), or African music. To
basically sum up what I have to say about the tensions in various musics, I
would agree with what has been said about western music being more
melodic/harmonic, contrasting with the melodic/rhythmic 'struggle' of
Indian/Asian music. To add a new category, I find that the tension is
almost eliminated in most african folk music, due to the fact the it does
not have a debate between polar opposites, but focuses primarily on one
aspect, which is rhythm. However, I have not listened to a wide enough
variety to consider myself knowledgable of African music.
Mark 29-01-04: This is interesting. The rhythms brought to the New world by
slaves resonates today in Latino and Blues. These rhythms are closely
associated with religion and self identity - often they both mean the same thing as in
the Yoruba religion which is hidden under the Catholic saints in the
Caribbean. (Think of Paul Simon's Rhythm of the saints.)
From an MoQ perspective there is so much to explore here it gets me excited!
:)
Turning to modern music, I find that after Jazz, probably the most
innovative and 'popular' which (in my opinion) has aims towards quality, is
the progressive rock category (someone mentioned Genesis).
Mark 29-01-04: Errrr, that was me! :)
My preferences of this Genre Include King Crimson, Yes, as well as some
others (I have up
to now mostly focused on Yes and King Crimson) such as Mahavishnu Orchestra,
and Genesis. In groups such as these, which most often contain 5 or 6
people, the artistic creativity, is interlayed with intellectual stimulation
(through music).
Mark 29-01-04: You're talking my language here Matt. :)
However, all of this is not to say I do not enjoy listening to other newer
types of music/art such as 'rap'. There are in my opinion, no categories of
music that are 'all bad'(even though I really dislike hardcore, and groups
such as Cannibal Corpse). I find that the artists that stand out to me,
often show that they have put CARE into their music, and of course, this
leads to quality.
Mark 29-01-04: Spot on. Care is the thing.
It is where there is the complete lack of any quality whatsoever that
bothers me. Perhaps there is some quality in everything, since it is the
source of both subject and obect (does music fall into these?), but I just
can't abide with certain "artists" who strive not to create something of
meaning, of quality, but rather just to make money. This is definitely
something that is NOT new to music. People have been making money (or other
equivalents) off music since it all started. However, when you look at some
composers, for example, classical composers, who had relatively little
skill, and had no intent of creating something of quality, it shows, as
their music is not only unoriginal, but lacks that 'something' that may be
contained in similar sounding pieces, written by those who care.
Mark 29-01-04: I have a feeling the answer is indicated by a music's ability
to generate a Dynamic coherent relationship with the patterns of the listener?
The level of coherence depends upon the evolutionary state of all the
patterns involved? You enjoy sophisticated and challenging prog. rock because anodyne
melody is not Dynamic enough for you?
By the way, i spent some of last Christmas listening to Jackie Gleason's
Christmas album from the 50's. I cannot think of a more anodyne selection of music
for the life of me? Music to fall asleep by.
I think in terms of quality, the sole factor of motivation is empathy.
Without this , quality could possibly not exist (let me think some more
about it), or at least not in humanity.
good day.
Matt
Mark 29-01-04: Here you say it yourself: '... the sole factor of motivation
is empathy.' If you do read The edge of chaos, i think you will discover a
conceptual basis and a vocabulary with which to express what you need to be able
to say Matt! You and i have been sharing the same struggle, as has Platt for
example: How to explain to people why we love the art we love, and why it is
beautiful. To paraphrase your statement here: 'The sole factor of evolution of
patterns is an ability to respond and become coherent with ever more Dynamic
patterns.'
All the best,
Mark
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