From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Sun Feb 15 2004 - 16:53:16 GMT
Hi Mark,
> But this is not to dismiss the experience of the way for those who can
> appreciate trash can music. Trash can music is in the moment just as
> listening to Mozart's Symphony No. 38 is in the moment, and that can be a
> good thing for insight.
All art is "in the moment" but that doesn't mean all art is good. "In the
moment" can be a very bad moment, like banging trash cans. :-)
Mark 15-02-04: If one approaches banging trash cans with a preconceived
notion of its value, then you may not be open and with beginners mind to experience
what is there?
> I have played in a Samba band and found the experience one of the most
> Dynamic in my life.
Go for it. Surely you wouldn't put Samba music on the same quality level
as banging trash cans?
Mark 15-02-04: There is a movement in South America which uses what is
available to summon the Gods. I have a feeling what they summon is a Dynamic
coherent state within the context of a social event. Not everyone has a chamber
orchestra tucked inside their back pocket!
> Now i wish to state that i feel it to be an absolute moral imperative for
> those of higher Quality to help those of lower Quality.
Why? Where does that "moral imperative" come from? Not from the MOQ that I
can see. Please cite the basis for your moral imperative, if there is
one.
Mark 15-02-04: There is textual support but i shall have to pin it down.
However, if what i say is not so, then high Quality represses lower Quality. Thus,
all teachers would aim to keep their pupils in ignorance. That is silly?
(Although from some of the crap i have been taught over the last few years perhaps
there is something in that!!!!)
> So, if i can use
> trash can music as a point of entry into Mozart's Symphony No. 38, then it
> is moral that i should do it.
I'd find it more moral to use Mozart's Symphony as a point of entry.
Why start at the bottom?
Mark 15-02-04: Well, i everyone is into Mozart, then they will be helping
me!!!
>That it can be done i have little doubt, for
> the way is the important feeling to convey, not the static patterns of the
> music. If we are lucky to be able to appreciate the best in art, we must
> never dismiss those who cannot. I feel that to be immoral.
I ask again. Is there a basis in the MOQ for a moral imperative to "help"
others appreciate the best in art?
Mark 15-02-04: There would be no art galleries if there were no wish to raise
Quality would there?
> And now to the matter of spirit. Poets talk of the spirit, but there is no
> spirit in the MoQ - no substantial spirit which adheres through change.
No Spirit in the MOQ? If DQ isn't Spirit I don't know what is. Other names
for DQ -- Atman, Brahman, God, Self, Soul, the Divine, etc. not to mention
Light, Love, Beauty, Emptiness, No-thing-ness, Infinite, the conceptually
unknown, etc.
Mark 15-02-04: The Christians will be out and about in a moment so be
careful? Spirit has a definite meaning for Christians that Christian poets aim to
celebrate. You know? All that, 'You will pay in heaven if you don't mind your
step and do as you are told in this life' rubbish.
The Buddha denied a 'thing' existing behind our experiences. The Atman does
refer to such a 'thing' and soul theorists such as these will not be happy with
the MoQ's position?
> The
> only force is DQ, with a cloud of static patterns atmospherically clinging
> to the cutting edge of reality. The weather changes but DQ remains.
As does Spirt, Soul, God, etc.
Mark 15-02-04: If all the terms you are using are metaphors for DQ then of
course i am in total agreement with you Platt. No question what so ever, and i
apologise for being stupid.
But Sam Norton, et al. not be happy bunny's! For them, God in heaven, the
collector of well behaved souls, welcoming into the eternal Kingdom is the order
of the day. Fairy stories for those seeking social status.
> Mozart's Symphony No. 38 is a Summers' excellence - trash can music is an
> overcast afternoon wish intermittent sunshine.
Mozart's music is perennial excellence. Trash can music is how it
describes itself -- trash.
Best regards,
Platt
Mark 15-02-04: I maintain there is value in trash can music. There is value
in an African Earth drum. If you are rejecting these because they are not the
very highest of human achievement then i find that a bit snobby Platt.
All the best,
Mark
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