From: Khoo Hock Aun (hockaun@pc.jaring.my)
Date: Thu Feb 19 2004 - 14:04:51 GMT
Hello SWZwick,
Thank you very much for your comments below. I found them very
informative:
SWZwick:
Regarding Sufism, Islam, and the MOQ, I'd say that Sufism (or Alevism,
which is the brand of Islam practiced in Turkey) is definitely a mystic
tradition and the Alevis I know do in fact place intellectual values
above societal values, and mystic values above intellectual values.
Khoo:
The placing of mystic values above intellectual values is a very
significant observation and has tons of implications for the MOQ.
SWZwick:
(Many Alevi spiritual leaders are, in fact, atheist -- they would describe
themselves as spiritual rather than religious). Alevism is very close to
Zen, and there is a 40-step process for achieving enlightenment -- but
there's also an ethnic identity among several Alevi groups. Without
digressing too far from the MOQ theme, I'd say that when they get bogged
down in who can and cannot trace his or her lineage back to Ali, they
embark upon a path away from the true Alevi path and away from the MOQ.
Khoo:
If they are atheists, by definition they cannot be Muslims. Whereas if you
are an atheist you can still regard yourself as a Zen buddhist. As for
the methodolgy for enlightenment, one could say there are as many steps
as there are individuals. But the transposition is significant.
SWZwick:
As to the question of how Sufism (or, in this case, Alevism) could
influence the more dogmatic brands of Islam that are weraking havoc on
the world, there is a quite simple and rational answer: basically, Alevis
are in the camp that says that Mohammed had a mystic experience in his
cave and was a bona fide holy man while living in Medina, but that when
he moved to Mecca and became a warrior and a politician, he ceased to be
a holy man and became instead a worldly man. They clearly differentiate
between the "inspired" early verses of the Koran, and the later verses,
which they say came from Mohammed's intellect rather than from his mystic
center.
Khoo:
I am with you completely on this one. One could also say the evangelical
Christ was mystical but after his cruxification (and the gospel he
preached sounded very much that way too), the institutionalisation of the
religion by Paul was an intellectual construction.
SWZwick:
You could say that Mohammed's ruminations on the world led him to a mystic
experience, and while still freshly aglow with this experience he began
to preach and to try and interpret his experience in light of traditions
around him. While this experience was still fresh, he made quite a lot
of sense. The Alevis tend to try and focus on what they perceive as
spiritual passages, and ignore worldly passages. You can go to an Alevi
culture festival and drink beer, dance, listen to incredible music, and
generally have a very good time.
Khoo:
You could say the same for Christianity too. Isn't it obvious that the
components of organised religion that strive towards the mystical and the
original experience of the founder always gets regards are herectical
blesphemous or plain insane, just as Pirsig himself was labelled as he
battled the Western academic Church of Reason.
SWZwick:
To say that they are thriving in Turkey, however, is a bit of an
overstatement. They still suffer quite a bit, and do much better in
Europe -- where they can openly express their culture without worrying
that a mob will storm the hotel they are staying in and burn it down, as
happened in the town of Sivas just over a decade agooo
Khoo:
While they exist I believe there is still a faint hope that the mystical
side of Islam will prevail. It is the intellectual aspects of the
organised religion that threaten conflicts while the common mystical
ground is placating and soothing force that is unfortunately ignored.
Rgds
Khoo Hock Aun
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