From: Leland Jory (ljory@mts.net)
Date: Mon Feb 23 2004 - 20:04:30 GMT
Khalil wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I am slightly concerned about the view expressed by Khoo and others that the
>only value within religion is its mystical dimension, the rest is some sort
>of social/intellectual construct that tends to do more harm than good.
>
I'll agree that religion in general falls under the heading of "static
pattern of social value", but its subjective value is just that, subjective.
> The
>fact is that a true religion is a source of guidance, understanding and
>meaning for man on every level and in every sphere and in every domain of
>human interaction and knowledge.
>
Here, I'd disagree. You may be confusing religion (lives at the social
level) with theology (lives at the intellectual level). Religion does
provide a static pattern of value for societies. The problem is when the
static patterns become impervious to the evolutionary forces of DQ.
>Duality/Unity- Of course if one really goes beyond duality to the Unity then
>everything disappears but the One!
>
You can still maintain some duality by remembering that it is the One
(DQ) that creates awareness of subjects and objects. The duality is
still there, it has just dropped down a level in the hierarchy.
> If there's only light without shade we
>see nothing but light. The same applies to language. Without language
>there is no understanding of what we are witnessing/experiencing.
>
The problem with language is, it is always insufficient to describe
reality (especially when you get into the realms of philosophy).
Remember the parallel drawn with the Tao in ZMM: "The Quality which can
be named is not the eternal Quality". The words are merely conventions
so that people may understand each other.
>Religion/Philosophy-One of the main differences between the 2 is the belief
>within religion of a world beyond the sensory world, whole hierarchal realms
>of existence beyond what we can perceive or rationalise. "There's more in
>heaven and earth than ever dreamt of in your philosophy Horatio"-Shakespeare
>
>
I'll assume you mean theology and not religion. Religion is to theology
as the frame of a house is to its doors, windows, and paint colors. One
provides the underlying structure where the other provides the details.
As for the main difference between the two, I'd say it is thus: Theology
professes to know the underlying "Truth" of the universe, where
philosophy doesn't. Discuss.
>Roger Bacon (not to be confused with Francis) an early English philosopher
>believed that the 2 had to be treated separately as fields of knowledge.
>His views essentially held sway within English philosophy until the
>renaissance. But in England religion=church doctrine/dogma. Once science
>undermined the church doctrine then religion died as an earnest pursuit of
>knowledge and the rational philosopher scientists held sway.
>
>
Theology and Philosophy probably should be treated separately, though
there can be some overlap. The only real conflict appears when you bring
'god' into the discussion. Many philosophers seem to be agnostic (at
most), and this point is where I've seen the largest butting of heads.
Regarding Dogma, IMO dogma is what happens when static q-social patterns
resist DQ changes. That being said, I do see the original value in
religion (not theology), as it can be seen as the static latch after the
evolution from primitive q-social patterns. I just wonder if maybe it
has outlived much of its usefulness.
>Doctrine/dogma is a fixed and static interpretation of scripture but we
>should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just
>because the interpretation is false or outdated does not mean that the
>source is false.
>
Since the 'source' is Quality, I can't argue here.
--
Leland Jory :^{)>
Cafeteria Spiritualist and Philosopher
"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go
away, I'm looking for the truth.' and so it goes away. Puzzling." -
Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
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