From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 29 2004 - 18:47:01 GMT
Hi Mr Poot
Very much agree with your email about
the horrible world of SOM alienation that we all
live in. I often find the decisions people make about
work and at work quite amazing, we have all thrown
away our agency, particularly our moral agency, all part
of this public/private split in a way. Shame you stopped
the from the heart stuff I was enjoying it. Take a look
at the books of Roy Bhaskar.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Poot" <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: MD When is a metaphysics not a metaphysics?
> Hello,
>
> What I will say, will relate to quality in the end. It may seem like
'chit
> chat' without all of the MoQ terms, but I hope you will grasp better what
I
> try to say from it, and how it directly relates to Quality, in life. keep
> reading...
>
> Matt K:You can lament this fact. Like Alasdair MacIntyre, you can
recognize
> the current situation philosophy is in and deplore this fact and try and
> encourage its reversal. For Western political thinkers like myself,
> however, we think these suggestions and lamentations are fruitless
> nostalgia. We think them fruitless, not necessarily because the situation
> couldn't be reversed (though that is sometimes the case do to structural
> circumstances outside of the way we speak), but because we think the gains
> of our current situation outweigh the losses. We think the freedom to
> choose whether you do philosophy or not outweighs the benefits of everyone
> having Plato's Republic memorized. We don't think philosophy itself is
> useless or fruitless, we simply think it sits alongside with all the other
> tools we use for social change. Philosophy is a good handmaiden to
> politics, but a poor master.
>
> Matt P: Well...I disagree with you here. You say that you think them
> (attempts at reversal) fruitless. Well, I am not suggesting reversal. I
am
> suggesting change (of course!). I do not think that it would be fair to
say
> 'reversing' , and that change (dynamics) are the major affectors (nothing
> new here).
>
> You say that you think the gains of our current situation , outwiegh the
> losses.
> May I ask one question? What world do you live in? You say we have
> freedom to choose! BAH! I live in Canada, and it seems to be more
liberal
> here than in many places in the states (Yes, I have spent time there [much
> time as a child]).
>
>
>
> Yet, what is the freedom to choose, when you are only given a certain
> criteria to choose from? I may be sounding like some sort of dreamy
> idealist who is disillusioned, but just hear me out.
>
> In terms of the 'criteria' I speak of, these are criteria for 'success'.
If
> you want to 'be someone' than you have to make certain choices. Do you
want
> to satisfy your personal and social needs, or will you satisfy your
> professional and monetary needs. There is less , and less, and less room
> available for becoming well-rounded, and thinking laterally.
>
> Pirsig said that he would ride out, and spend a few days in the mountains,
> ride back in for food, and keep doing it. Would I not do this ? Yes.
But
> can I do it......no! I'm not saying we should all do no work....but
>
> #1 factor: $$$$$
>
> This is what I 'need' in my life now: Money, _work_. These are two
> things, which one is FORCED into. People choose to study subjects which
> only have the prospect of making good money, and _seem_ interesting.
What
> do they get in return? They end up being one of the - - - million people
> working in a cubicle, sending e-mails, memos,and typing up useless
> documents. Either that, or they have some other job which provides them
no
> stimulation, and is simply known as "Work". This 'work' that leads to no
> personal development, satisfaction, or gratification.
>
> The choice of doing what one loves, and doing something to make a good
> 'living' are about the most mangled subjects. The idea is taught that if
/
> when you find a good profession , than you stick with it, because you love
> it. Most people do not even love their jobs! Therfor, they do not _care_
> and we all know what this leads to.........complete and utter lack of
> Quality.
>
> I have said much more, but deleted it because I'm straying ....
>
>
> MATT K: Philosophy is a good handmaiden to politics, but a poor master.
>
>
> matt P: Handmaiden....Master? Lets not get into Nietszche here. "It" is
not
> about being Master or Handmaiden, or being better or worse. Its about
being
> the BEST. Good. Excellence. Quality. striving for something, instead
of
> being happy with what you have to be happy with.
>
> Also, you say that it is a better hand-maiden to politics. Then, based on
> this, you are assuming that politics is different, and above philosophy in
> the heirarchy of things. This is dead wrong IMO.
>
> Politics = practical philosophy.
>
> I am not making the connection very well right now, but it would / will
> take a lot of research, and would/will be quite lengthy.
>
> Questions and comments will be appreciated.
>
>
> Poot.
>
> bedtime
>
>
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