From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Wed Apr 14 2004 - 12:47:52 BST
PART. 2.b
More Sam:
In After Virtue,
Alasdair MacIntyre discusses Homeric virtue (the arete that Pirsig also
discusses in ZMM) and he argues that "morality and social structure are in
fact one and the same in heroic society. There is only one set of social
bonds. Morality as something distinct does not yet exist.
Mark 14-4-04: A hero, Homeric or otherwise, is a celebrity. The Hero wants to
be noticed as the individual he is; he is better than everyone else. The
intellect is not interested in any of that, and is used in so far as it can become
more of a celebrity.
Intellectual patterns which abstract morality for intellectual enquiry have
nothing to do with celebrity status.
Sam (yawn):
Evaluative
questions are questions of social fact. It is for this reason that Homer
speaks always of knowledge of what to do and how to judge." It is only
when there is some sense of self as something apart from those social
roles (eg husband or wife, child or parent, noble or slave) that there is
the possibility of judgement about what is right - in MoQ terms, that
openness to DQ depends upon a degree of detachment from the social role.
Mark 14-4-04: This is simply Intellectual patterns challenging Social
patterns.
Sam (making reader stick fork into arm):
"Just as the cell is the unit at the biological level, and the social
roles represent the unit at the social level (eg father, husband, son,
farmer, politician, scientist), the unit of the fourth level is not a
disembodied rational intellect, but an autonomous - ie socially detached -
individual.
Mark 14-4-04: The problem with Sam's account has already been identified.
Once again for good measure: Intellectual patterns challenge social patterns and
result in apparent autonomous behaviour. The behaviour is the result of the
tension between Social and Intellectual patterns.
Sam announces, "the unit of the fourth level is not a disembodied rational
intellect."
Well, no one said it was did they?
The unit, if one must have one, of the Intellectual level would be a pattern
of intellectual value. Patterns of intellectual values don't have to be
rational. Rationality is an orchestration of patterns in coherent unity. The
orchestration may play a large repertoire of tunes, but variations of rationality are
the end result of the intellectual corpus.
Sam continues to compound his initial mistakes:
And that autonomy is not dependent primarily upon reason, but
upon emotional maturity.
Mark 14-4-04: This is where you voiced confusion Platt? And no bleedin'
wonder mate!
This is utter garbage in MoQ terms, pure and simple. It may be utter garbage
full stop? One thing is for certain, this has got sod all to do with the MoQ.
Now, remember that Sam claims his MoQ variation has made only minor changes
while retaining all the MoQ building blocks intact? From what has been said
above we can see this to be total fallacious rubbish.
Sam began with a misunderstanding, and by the time he begins to build his own
edifice things go daft almost immediately.
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