From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Apr 18 2004 - 14:28:30 BST
Hi All
Perhaps there is a distinction to be made
here between the character of the patterns that exist
on a particular level and the character of the activity that
is made possible by that level. A flourishing and autonomous
human being is an activity within the context of various values
that is made possible by all the levels reaching up to the forth.
Character is the expression through activity of certain well
constructed and cooperating patterns and the coherence of
DQ at its best. Anu use? Any further thoughts?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: MD The Individual Level
Sam:
I think 'eudaimonia' describes those patterns better than intellectual. I completely accept the
point that the levels describe patterns, not people - it is a presupposition of my argument.
Mark 17-4-04: Sam, this is based on a fundamental mistake of yours regarding the MoQ. Levels ARE patterns. A level is a static repertoire of patterns of value.
Let us use a simple analogy: The Symphony Orchestra.
The Symphony Orchestra has a Woodwind section, a String section, a Percussion section, and a Brass section. Let us assume these sections correspond to the four levels of the MoQ?
Any particular instrument must be tuned; it must be in a best tension with itself; it must 'be' well. Just as one instrument may 'be' well does not make it a new instrument does it? No. To be in tune is a good instrument.
And so with ensemble paying - Eudaimonia is the Orchestra playing as a whole. Good Ensemble playing is not a new Orchestra, it is an Orchestra playing well.
You make a simple mistake, but one which colours your whole description of Eudaimonia.
Sam:
I think a person is a combination of all the levels plus DQ. What I think the stable pattern of
fourth level quality refers to is 'character' - and people can have more or less character, better
or worse characters. It is a feature of a person; it's not the whole person.
Mark 17-4-04: The term Character here is, in the analogy of the Symphony Orchestra, Ensemble playing. It is not the Woodwind, String, Percussion or Brass section.
You confuse what the Orchestra IS with what the Orchestra is DOING.
What the Orchestra is, is four sections; each section has instruments; each instrument is tuned, that is to say, each instrument is at its best.
Just as a best tuned instrument is not a 'new' instrument, so a best Orchestra is not a 'New' Orchestra.
Sam:
One reason why 'individual' doesn't work quite so well as Eudaimonia IMO, although it's better than intellect.
Mark 17-4-04: Now that your mistake has been identified and understood, we can see where you have gone astray: What Intellect does may be valued as either better or worse. Better Intellectual activity is not 'New' Intellectual activity, it is Intellectual activity being well, rather as a violin may be tuned poorly or tuned well. And the same may be said for each level in its turn.
In the Ensemble playing of the Orchestra, the whole may play poorly or well, and playing well does not constitute a 'new' Orchestra.
There is no Eudaimon level in the MoQ - However, there is Coherence in and across patterns of value, and it is the nature of Coherence - ensemble playing - which may be appreciated aesthetically as a life lived well.
Mark.
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