From: InfoPro Consulting: Mark Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri May 07 2004 - 03:25:05 BST
Hi David,
Thanks for the response. Comments interspersed, below.
On 4 May 2004 at 20:08, David Buchanan wrote:
msh said:
Is there a way to approach DQ without religion? I'm enjoying this
thread, and am very familiar with ZMM and Lila, and neither of those
books in any fashion endorses anything approximating religion, as far
as I can tell.
dmb said:
Welcome. I'm glad you've joined in. There is point in Lila where . In
chapter 30 of Lila the issue is addressed specifcially. There Pirsig
writes, "..once this integration occurs and DQ is identified with
religious mysticism it produces an avalanche of information as to
what DQ is. A lot of this religious mysticism is just low-grade
"yelping about God" of course, but if you search for the sources of
it and don't take the yelps too literally a lot of interesting things
turn up."
Among these interesting things in the Dharmakaya light that El Greco
painted. At the end of chapter 26 he writes,
"In other cultures, or in the religiouos literature of our past, wher
the immune system of 'objectivity' is weak or ono-existent, reference
to this light is everywhere, from the Protestant hymn, 'Lead Kindly
Light', to the halos of the saints. The central terms of Western
mysticism, 'enlightenment' and 'illumination' refer to it directly.
Darsana, a fundamental Hindu form of religiuos instruction, means
'giving of light'. Descriptions of Zen SATORI mention it. It is
referred to extensively in THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE
DEAD. Aldous Huxley referrred to it as part of the mescaline
experience. Phaedrus rememebered it from the time with Dusenberry at
the peyote meeting, althought he had assumed that it was just an
optical illusion produced by the druf and not of any great
importance. Proust wrote about it in 'Rememberance of Things Past'.
In El Greco's 'Nativity' the DHARMAKAYA light emanating from the
Christ child provides the only illumination there is..
...Our culture immunizes us against giving much importance to all
this because the light has no 'objective' relaity. ..In a MOQ,
however, this light is important because it often appears associated
with UNDEFINED AUSPICIOUSNESS, that is, Dynamic Quality. It signals a
Dynamic intrusion upon a static situation."
msh says:
Yes, I remember these passages, and was sort of floored by them,
especially the stuff about how "the light" keeps showing up in
religious (and non-religious) texts and art, Halos!. I bet I could
find a hundred references in Shakespear alone. And even in our daily
conversation, I might add. "It suddenly dawned on me...", "I finally
saw the light..." Goethe, on his death bed, whispering "More
light...more light!"
Sadly, I can't claim to have seen it, in any normal sense of the
word; must be that cultural immunization he talks about. Or, as
Steven Martin once said, "Yeah, I studied just enough philosophy to
fuck me up for the rest of my life." Maybe I need the peyote or
mescaline.
However, I know that I am often AWARE of it as DQ, in touch with it,
online. As a musician, as a poet, even as a programmer (so help me),
there are times when what I'm doing doesn't seem to involve ME at
all. It's weird... and exhilarating. Problem is, it seems to come
get me, yet never comes when I call. O well.
msh said:
Noam Chomsky has said that he thinks it's dangerous to let one's life
be motivated by non-rational belief systems, and provides plenty of
historical evidence in support. Just wondrin' what y'all think...
dmb replied:
Pay no attention to Platt's complaints. He has a severe allergic
reaction when anyone left of center is mentioned.
msh says:
We have this dotty aunt in our family, a little frothy and frazzled
but harmless. Wears her sweaters backwards, and shouts things like
"Halt! Who goes there?", and lunges with her umbrella. Most of the
time she stays in her room. But every once in a while she shows up
for dinner, just as the guests are arriving. Actually, it provides
for an irritating but often funny evening.
dmb continued:
Getting back to the actual point, it is, I think, a slam dunk no-
brainer. The only question I have about it asks whether the danger is
an inherent feature of these non-rational belief systems or in the
non-rational persons who decide to adopt them. ;-)
msh says:
Yeah, I see the problem. We can eradicate the systems, but... ;-)
Thanks again for the feedback.
Mark Heyman
-- InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is everything." -- Henri Poincare' MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archives: Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri May 07 2004 - 03:30:24 BST