From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat May 08 2004 - 11:00:40 BST
Hi
Seems simple to me, sure there is a lot of fear behind
SOM and it is in part fear of DQ. The point of MOQ
is to put DQ back in its place, like a god both awesome,
essential and pretty scary. The false god is the god
of SOM who is all powerful, with DQ thinks are more
open and less predictable.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: MD Patterns
> Hi Steve Peterson, DMB, All.
>
> Your review of what patterns mean in the context of the MOQ was excellent.
> I agree with you and DMB that change in and of itself doesn't always mean
> that DQ is involved, a point I've repeated several times in other posts.
> So when you say, "When Pirsig uses the phrase 'static pattern' I don't
> think that he means to exclude change or to associate change with Dynamic
> Quality," I say, "Right on."
>
> But earlier you said:
>
> > Platt didn't like the idea of thinking of a person as a pattern . . ."
>
> I don't mean to bring up our old argument again which we've agreed to let
> go. But, to be clear, I've no objection to the idea of thinking of a
> person as a pattern. I do see the Intellectual Level as being dominated by
> patterned persons who think independently of social patterns and thus
> suggested calling it the Individual Level.
>
> Be that as it may, you made one observation I find hard to swallow, namely
> that "a patterns view does not require a metaphysical grounding." As a
> general proposition I think it's fair to say that all views have a
> metaphysical grounding whether recognized or not. But more particularly,
> the following quote from sociologist Eviatar Zerubovet set me to wondering
> about the metaphysical basis for the existence of patterns at all:
>
> "It is our basic need for order and deep fear of chaos that makes us draw
> lines. A world with no lines is a chaotic world, which is why we have
> symbolically set aside the first three days of Creation just for making
> distinctions . . . By providing closure, boundaries make us feel more
> secure . . . Boundaries also protect us from the endless anguish generated
> by open-endedness . . . By closing our libidinal and possessional
> horizons, moral limits also help protect us from our own passions and
> ambitions, which are inherently insatiable. A world with no limits is a
> world of perceptual misery."
>
> So the question is, "Are value patterns creations of our own necessities
> and thus a man-made net laid over our experience or, as Pirsig asserts,
> are they integral and inherent in reality?"
>
> What do you think?
>
> Best, Platt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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