From: InfoPro Consulting: Mark Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Mon May 17 2004 - 03:32:51 BST
Hi Alicia, and all,
On 16 May 2004 at 18:09, Alicia Dvorak wrote:
ad said:
second. jesus you guys write a lot. i just got caught up reading the
posts.
msh says:
Sorry. It's only because we don't have real jobs. ;-)
ad said:
There's been talk about the relationships between social and
biological levels and the need for police/force to control
'biological crime'. but i don't think i understand what that means.
laws lie entirely within the social level so in what ways does the
breaking of those laws cross over into biology?
msh says:
In a nutshell, I think Pirsig would say that biological crimes
consist in any activity that promotes the biological interest of the
criminal to the detriment of society. So, if I smack my girlfriend's
lover with a baseball bat, I've committed a crime. Even though my
action serves, for me, a biological purpose, the eliminating of
competition, such behavior is a threat to society overall, and is
therefore criminal.
Note that this has nothing to do with whether or not society has
formally "criminalized" such behavior. This may be the source of
your confusion in our discussions. We sometimes blur the two, but a
distinction should be made between crime as derived from the MoQ and
crime as defined by society's laws.
Within human societies of any size, societal decisions such as what
and what not to criminalize are made by relatively small groups of
privileged individuals with conflicting economic and power interests
(in other words, biological self-interests). In comparison to the
total populations of their respective societies, these groups are
microscopic in size, yet manage to accrue, almost always through
inordinate wealth, or violence, or the threat of violence, a vastly
disproportionate power over the decision- making processes of their
societies. As I've said elsewhere, societies define and prioritize
criminality in all sorts of ways, most of them for the sole purpose
of legitimizing the extant society. So a guy smacking you and
grabbing your wallet does some mean time in prison or county jail,
while a gal who steals millions, including the life savings of lotsa
moms and pops, devastating thousands of families, pays a fine.
ad said:
is all crime biological?
msh says:
In the strictest sense of the MoQ, yes, all crime is biological, IMO.
But, remember, this has nothing to do with whether or not the "crime"
is recognized as such by any given society. Some activities which do
not qualify as crime within the MoQ, may yet be criminalized by a
society. Similarly, activities that should be criminal, are not
always recognized as such, and are not formally criminalized. This
is why it's so important for society's decisions to be influenced by
the constant dynamic and free exchange and interaction of ideas, even
if, in fact PARTICULARLY if, those ideas challenge the legitimacy of
existing societal policy. This is the only way in which societies
will make moral progress.
ad said:
what ARE the biological motives behind a crime.
msh says:
I think to state the bio motives behind any crime requires some real-
world examples for analysis.
ad said:
Is wanting to steal money a biologically motivated action and wanting
to make money a social one?
msh says:
Again, it depends on the details and circumstances. But, in fact,
making money often involves stealing.
Just somethin' to think about. Thanks, and welcome to the forum.
Best
Mark Steven Heyman
--
InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
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