From: InfoPro Consulting: Mark Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Mon May 17 2004 - 06:15:30 BST
On 16 May 2004 at 23:38, Alicia Dvorak wrote:
> msh said:
> Within human societies of any size, societal decisions such as what
> and what not to criminalize are made by relatively small groups of
> privileged individuals with conflicting economic and power
interests (in other words, biological self-interests).
ALD said:
Recognition, admiration, and celebrity (this is opening another whole
topic!) are part of Society and are gained by increased power or
wealth.
msh says:
Not really a different topic. What purpose is being served by
gaining admiration, recognition, celebrity, other than for some
organisms to feel better about themselves, thus strengthening their
biological well being at the expense of others. Even if money and
power don't follow, which in the real world they always do, in what
way does society as a whole benefit from decisions made by such
people?
ald said:
In MY eyes money and power are not admirable, but in general they
tend to garner a certain amount of respect.
msh says:
Respect from whom? And why? And why is that important to the well
being of the society as a whole? See above...
ald said:
By saying that money and power are biological interests it seems as
if you are implying that such things as capitalism and politics are
not part of the social level.
msh says:
Not sure I see the implication. Capitalism and politics are
certainly social/cultural phenomena. When individuals participate in
them, nurture them, for their own biological benefit to the detriment
of society as a whole then, according to the MoQ, a crime has been
committed.
> msh said:
> In comparison to the
> total populations of their respective societies, these groups are
> microscopic in size, yet manage to accrue, almost always through
> inordinate wealth, or violence, or the threat of violence, a vastly
> disproportionate power over the decision- making processes of their
> societies.
ALD said:
i agree, but these rulers are a part of society, not separate from
it. Also although it may appear that one small group is
oppressing/controlling the larger population, i think that they are
in reality just very key players used by the "Giant" which nobody
individually, or even in a group, controls.
msh says:
Well, ya gotta be careful in using Pirsig's "Giant" to justify the
actions of society. I don't think he meant it to do so, and was just
sort of waxing poetic in his interlude with Manhattan. The giant is
big, but its not carved in stone or otherwise handed down from on
high; it's created by society or interacting societies. To excuse
the behavior of society by saying the giant made us do it is not
satisfactory, at least not to me.
Best,
Mark Steven Heyman
-- InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is everything." -- Henri Poincare' MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archives: Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
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