From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jun 02 2004 - 20:32:03 BST
Hi Johnny
Nice post. It is interesting how patterns persist
through time. Henri Bergson is quite good on this stuff.
Consciousness finds itself opposed to these patterns.
Whilst our human activity is free we are unable to dissolve
the patterns that we find somehow separated from our own
willing acitivity. Why do patterns persist? Why do patterns seem
passive and inactive in the form of matter? I think we can see
a clue in our own habits. The things we keep doing (& value)
become less conscious (unconscious), and somewhat mechanical.
Activity loses consciousness the more we repeat an activity.
If the cosmos as a whole is an activity, matter is formed by the
oldest and most repeated patterns. Their repetition implies
that there has been some value in their persistence. How is a pattern
able to persist? We can answer this question by reversing the essentialist
assumption. The essentialist looks for patterns to explain the cosmos.
I would suggest that we explain the cosmos as an activity. How does activity
create patterns? By withdrawing its own openness and creativity and DQ.
The withdrawal of the open/possible is to allow the occurance of the same,
or a pattern. Imagine a really free football. You kick it at the goal, it
can fly
off in any direction, at any speed, into any dimension, it can curve, change
direction, etc. No use for playing football. To be an ordinary football is
to
have a limited range of properties. It can be described because it has a
range
of behaviour. Patterns are brought about by a loss of dynamic freedom.
Something fully determined and pattern like can be described by classical
science.
Particles and life have levels of dynamic freedom that demonstrates the
reality
of DQ. Does this make sense?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: MD Patterns (and consciousness)
> Hi Mark,
>
> >JM:
> >Does anyone care to comment on the time component of patterns, how they
> >ontologically continue the past into the future?
>
> >Mark 2-6-04: That's a blasted good question. Time is a pattern.
>
> I hadn't been thinking of time as a pattern, actually. Maybe an Hour or a
> Year is a pattern, but time itself? I'm not sure how to figure that.
Time
> is sort of created by patterns repeating themselves forward into the
future.
> I don't know, that adds a confusing element to what I was getting at.
>
> >JM:
> >Also, patterns explain
> >what consciousness is - it is patterns. Patterns are all that
> >consciousness is conscious of, and patterns could not exist without
> >consciousness to see them into the future.
> >
> >Mark 2-6-04: I feel you are suggesting an objective nature for time which
> >acts as a backdrop to what consciousness does Johnny? "...how they
> >ontologically
> >continue the past into the future?"
>
> What I mean is that this table in front of me is a pattern in that it is
the
> table now, it repeats to be the table now, it repeats to be the table now,
> it repeats to be the table now, and so on, following the pattern. It
> repeats itself and ontologically creates itself. The pattern is that it
> continues to be the table, not just that is statically a pattern of a
table
> but might vanish in the next instant. The pattern is that it continues to
> be. The pattern isn't that it has four legs and a top, that is a pattern
of
> tables in general, and in that same way that is the pattern of tables in
> general now, the pattern of tables in general now, and so on. That
pattern
> repeats too. If a pattern doesn't bring itself into the future by
repeating
> itself from the past, then it isn't a pattern. See what I mean?
>
> >They, 'patterns' do not inhere in Time.
> >Patterns inhere in coherent relationships which respond to DQ depending
on
> >degree of coherence, which are then construed as forming a temporal
> >continuum.
>
> I think to "inhere" means to take up time, to go from moment to moment
being
> in something. So yes, I do think patterns inhere in time. Relationships
> inhere in time too, things in a relationship take time to relate to one
> another. DQ is all about time, moving the cutting edge of the what is
(SQ)
> into what will be (SQ'), according to all the patterns together, the
> strongest most valued patterns having the greatest strength to repeat and
> reaffirm their value.
>
> >Consciousness is degrees of coherence, and this means degrees of SQ-SQ
> >[SQ-DQ?]
> >tension. Time is one such tension, but it is primarily the value of
> >relationships.
> >Good relationships have a high sense of coherence, and at this degree of
> >value
> >time can appear to stop in wonder, joy, beauty?
>
> Yeah, but that's more a poetic observation than I am getting at. I'm just
> trying to explain the way patterns of morality become reality to a
> consciousness.
>
> >Biological coherence does the same thing if you have ever been chased by
a
> >threat. Run away! Run away! No time here.
>
> That's a good strong pattern!
>
> >That's what i think anyway!
> >All the best,
> >Mark
>
> Thaks for your thoughts, I'll keep musing about time as a pattern. For
now
> I think it is unnecessary to consider it a pattern in itself.
>
> Johnny M
>
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