Re: MD Noam Chomsky

From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 04 2004 - 20:02:10 BST

  • Next message: johnny moral: "Re: MD Patterns (and consciousness)"

    Hi Mark,

    I found this exchange with Platt on May 24th:

    msh said:
    ...If a nation violates, suppresses, destroys, or in any other way
    impedes or diminishes even a single person's chance for equality with
    his fellow beings, it is MORALLY IMPERATIVE that
    that corrupted nation be destroyed. Tough but true words, I think.

    ph said:
    Also, I commented on this in a previous post, saying your idea was
    moral justification for invading Iraq. You responded that the U.S.
    doesn't want to establish a democracy in Iraq. Suggest we discuss
    this further in a separate post.

    msh says:
    At best, the only morally justified action is that the people of Iraq
    be allowed to shape their society and culture in any way they see
    fit, not just as seen fit by the US government. That is, when I
    speak of a corrupted society being destroyed, I mean destroyed, in
    the sense of dramatically altered, FROM WITHIN, by the people who
    live in that society. I think Pirsig would argue that a heavy burden
    of proof of the need for societal self-defense rests on the
    preemptively attacking society. As we've seen, in the case of Iraq,
    nothing even approximating any such proof has been presenting.

    Johnny:
    So, it would seem that FROM WITHIN is the key to how you dismantled this
    argument (but I don't see any reference to the MoQ here, so maybe I didn't
    find the right post?). So you are hoping that Haliburton will destroy
    itself from within, I suppose? Do you want "authority, hierarchy, and
    domination in every aspect of life" to destroy themselves from within? Or
    do you want to "challenge them"?

    Clearly, the idea is that Chomsky wants us to "seek OUT" these repressive
    things "in every aspect of life", "to increase the scope of human freedom".
    How can that be read to exclude challenging authority in Iraq, or anywhere?

    I see nothing in his quote that says to keep it in house, that we have to
    respect boundaries of any type, be they societal, international, or
    heirarchical. IN fact, it would seem that iternational or societal
    boundaries would be the exact sort of "structures...of political power,
    ownership and
    management, relations among men and women" that would have to be the first
    to be challenged and dismantled. And I see nothing in his quote that says
    not to do it with bombs and bayonets.

    Now, I can see that in this war, the Giant has increased its coercion and
    control over a huge part of the world, and I don't consider the Iraqi people
    any freer than they were before, nor will I when they all have MTV and
    abortion.

    Johnny

    >From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >Subject: Re: MD Noam Chomsky
    >Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:42:44 -0700
    >
    >Hi all,
    >
    >Yeah it's a good one, all right. So good that Platt is trotting it
    >out again after I used the MOQ to dismantled it last month in
    >another thread. I won't repeat myself, as anyone who wants to can
    >look it up.
    >
    >I'd still be interested in some thoughtful comments.
    >
    >Best to all,
    >msh
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >On 4 Jun 2004 at 15:26, johnny moral wrote:
    >
    >Platt:
    > >Glad to see Chomsky's eloquent justification for invading Iraq.
    > >
    > >Platt
    >
    >Good one, Platt! I hadn't thought about that when I read that quote,
    >but you're absolutely right, it does advocate dismantling Saddam's
    >illegitimate authority, doesn't it?
    >
    >
    >
    >
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